Monday, April 30, 2018

Suggested re-order quantity and printer for Spiral binding and Soft Cover binding iami1 blogbook for bookshop(s); More info. about related courier charges

Quick Summary

Suggested re-order quantity and printer for Spiral binding iami1 blogbook for bookshop(s): 3 copies from Delhi based online printer at Rs. 303.80 for total cost including shipping, and so effective per copy inclusive of shipping rate being Rs. 101.27 (around Rs. 102).

Suggested re-order quantity and printer for Soft Cover binding iami1 blogbook for bookshop(s): 3 copies from at Rs. 562 for total cost including shipping, and so effective per copy inclusive of shipping rate being Rs. 187.33 (around Rs. 188).


This post is a speculative one. If the real possibility of nobody wanting to buy printed copy of iami1 book from bookshop(s) is what actually happens then this post analysis will NOT come into play. I chose to do this analysis to be prepared with an answer to re-order questions both in my mind and from any bookshop owner/manager to whom I speak or have spoken already, about putting up the iami1 blogbook for sale. The re-order typically will come into play only if the promotional copy given by me gets sold.

I presume that it is legal in India for a bookshop to sell a book printed using an online printer service (given appropriate copyright permission to print, which is the case with iami1 blogbook). If readers have any information to the contrary, please let me know. I try very hard to be a law-abiding citizen of India and do not want to participate in anything that is not in conformance with Indian law.

I think it is becoming clear to me now that, for 2 or more copies, the Delhi online printing service providers are the most economical for print copies, both of spiral binding as well as Soft Cover binding. However, the courier charge for 1 copy alone makes it more expensive. Also even if the Delhi online printer's Soft Cover binding may be slightly cheaper than for many copies, I think the quality of will be superior. So I think it makes sense to use only for Soft Cover binding copies.

I think any bookshop(s) to whom I will be giving my promotional copy, may be willing, if the promotional copy sells, to re-order 2 copies or sometimes even 3 copies (instead of 1). They could place the re-order directly with one of the Delhi printing service providers for Spiral binding copies or with for Soft Cover binding copies. I want to help set up the arrangement for bookshop(s) to do re-orders using printers and/or, and then get out of the picture.

Spiral binding book copies from Delhi based online printer

Today (30th April 2018) I checked out the courier charge for one Delhi printing service provider ( for Spiral binding book copy(ies). The results are given below.

Production cost per copy of iami1 blogbook (current version dated 26th April 2018 of 123 A5 size inner content pages) is Rs. 80.60. No discount is offered for multiple copies though shipping gets cheaper with multiple copies, and becomes free after order value crosses 1100.

Courier charges (in Rupees) to Puttaparthi (as checked using ordering process but without confirming order), are as follows:
[Per copy cost inclusive of shipping - PCCIS]
1 copy - 55 [Total order price: 135.60]   PCCIS: = 135.60
2 copies - 62 [Total order price: 223.20] PCCIS: 223.20/2 = 111.60
3 copies - 62 [Total order price: 303.80] PCCIS: 303.80/3 = 101.27
4 copies - 74 [Total order price: 396.40] PCCIS: 396.40/4 = 99.10
5 copies - 74 [Total order price: 477.00] PCCIS: 477/5 = 95.40

10 copies - 86 [Total order price: 892.00] PCCIS: 892/10 = 89.20

13 copies - 98 [Total order price: 1145.80] Makes sense to order 14 copies instead of 13 as total price is lower for 14 copies due to shipping becoming free.

14 copies - 0 [Total order price: 1128.80; Shipping free as order (without shipping) crossed 1100] PCCIS: 1128.80/14 = 80.63

For 14 copies and above, the order price crosses 1100 and so shipping is free.

From the above info. I think a good re-order option for bookshop(s) would be 2 or 3 copies with effective price per copy inclusive of shipping being around Rs. 112 and around Rs. 102 respectively. This is in comparison to Rs. 107 for Spiral binding copy produced by Puttaparthi local shop. The advantage with the Delhi printing shop is ready service and perhaps higher quality printing, with the disadvantage being delivery delay.

For a 10 to 20 spiral-bound copies order, I think the Delhi online printing service provider is the best choice. [I placed an order for 12 spiral-bound copies and 1 Soft Cover bound copy with today at a total charge of Rs. 1119.80.]

Rather than exploring possibility of stapled book offered by Puttaparthi printer shop at Rs. 140 per copy (there could be some issues with them taking order from book shop(s)), I think it may be better for a bookshop to re-order 2 or 3 copies of Soft Cover book, if at all the Soft Cover binding promotional copy sells. [The Rs. 140 for stapled book does not seem to have an equivalent in online printing service provider shops as their stapled book seems far more rudimentary (and they seem to split it as two books if the number of pages crosses 100).]

The Soft cover binding production cost at the Delhi printing service providers is around Rs. 150. Courier charges for 2 or 3 copies (like spiral bound case) may be Rs. 62 (I have not checked it), making the effective per Soft Cover book copy price to be around Rs. 185 and Rs. 175 respectively.

Soft Cover binding book copies from

A better quality and standardized option perhaps is using's Soft Cover book sale page, Its price and courier details are as follows (as of 30th April 2018):

Sale price of copy is Rs. 159. No discount is offered up to 49 copies. From 50 copies onwards some discount is applied.

Courier charges (in Rupees) to Puttaparthi (as checked using ordering process but without confirming order) are as follows:
[Per copy cost inclusive of shipping - PCCIS]
1 copy - 50 [Total order price: 209] PCCIS = 209
2 copies - 85 [Total order price: 403] PCCIS = 403/2 = 201.50
3 copies - 85 [Total order price: 562] PCCIS = 562/3 = 187.33

4 copies - 127.50 [Total order price: 763.50] PCCIS = 763.50/4 = 190.86
5 copies - 170 [Total order price: 965] PCCIS = 965/5 = 193
6 copies - 170 [Total order price: 1124] PCCIS = 1124/6 = 187.33
10 copies - 297.50 [Total order price: 1887.50] PCCIS = 1887.50/10 = 188.75
20 copies - 552.50 [Total order price: 3732.50] PCCIS = 3732.50/20 = 186.63

Got one staple bound and one spiral bound iami1 blogbook copy from local Puttaparthi shops

This post follows up on this previous post, Sample/trial print of iami1 blogbook shows issues related to stapled book, page margins, cover pic and font size,, posted on 18th April 2018 and last updated on 21st April 2018.

Yesterday (28th April 2018), I got delivery of two different copies of the iami1 book that I had ordered/requested from two local Puttaparthi shops.

One copy - staple-bound book - delivered yesterday was from the local Puttaparthi printer (a regular DTP guy into printing books) where the operator/assistant printed the next version I had given him of the iami1 book. It had the following main changes from what I had given him earlier (the sample/trial version described in above mentioned post of 18th April 2018):
*) Cover page pics with coloured border; Filler colour in spine part of pic (no text in spine part of pic)
*) 12 point Font size for main text instead of 11 point
*) Additional around quarter inch margin on left and right to make it more easy to read text in the inner edge of the book
*) Version dated 18th April 2018 having 108 pages of inner content

The cost came to around Rs. 130 for this book copy.

For context I have given below a pic of the earlier sample/trial copy where the reader has difficulty reading text at the inner edges of the book.

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

The pics given below are of the above mentioned 18th April 2018 version with larger left and right margins. Two of the pics below show how the larger left and right margins have resolved the problem faced in the earlier sample/trial copy whose pic is given above.

I was told that for the 123 pages of latest version (26th April 2018), the same type of book printing and staple-binding will cost me Rs. 140. I requested him to prepare one copy (at Rs. 140) of the latest version.

The other copy delivered was from a laser printer and spiral binding shop guy who also does other work (but is not a regular DTP guy). He printed the current version of the book which had following additional main changes to the one above (as far as I can recall now):
*) Sources mentioned for Wikipedia external quotes in book.
*) Summary of Dr. Francis Collins' Caltech 2009 lecture included.
*) Included acknowledgement of unnamed near-contemporary spiritual master's strong influence on my views in one post (Chandogya Upanishad related post).
*) Formatting of text content made more standardized across book.
*) Version dated 26th April 2018 having 123 pages of inner content.

After some running-around where I planned to use services of another Puttaparthi local person to do the cutting, trimming and Soft Cover binding, and perhaps yet somebody else to do colour cover printing, I found myself stuck and had to discuss the matter with the laser printer guy who printed the inner content (as two A5 pages on each side of A4 page; so four A5 pages on both sides of one A4 page) and charged me Rs. 62 for the 123 A5 pages (62 A4 pages where both sides of a paper are printed on, and each side is counted as a page) printing. The printing of the A5 pages on A4 size page was such that if one folded the entire printout in the middle OR cut it in the middle and then joined the two parts together as if one is folding the uncut part together, then we have the whole A5 document including the both-sides printing aspect of it, in right pagination order ! It seems that there is some setting in the printer properties/options dialog which does this trick.

The guy was willing to help produce a spiral bound copy with rough cutting of the A4 pages into A5 pages. He also organized a colour print on ordinary paper (not thick paper) but he added a lamination sheet on the front colour cover as well as the back colour cover to provide some protection to the book cover.

The total cost came to Rs. 107 (Rs. 20 for spiral binding & lamination sheets, and Rs. 25 for colour print of cover front and back pages, in addition to Rs. 62 inner content printing cost).

Its pics are given below.

Meanwhile, perhaps day-before-yesterday (27th April), I also got a neatly packed delivery from a Delhi online printing service having printed A5 pages of inner content of book (not bound) and full cover page colour printed on thick page (230 GSM Glossy paper, if I recall correctly). This delivery made me face one issue that I knew at the back of my mind but was not wiling to complicate things by discussing it with the Delhi online printer while giving my order. This was that the full cover page pic (Back page + spine filler + Front page) ideally needed a longer than A4 size printout so as to account for the book spine thickness. But what I got in the delivery was a decent colour print on thick glossy paper but on A4 size sheet. That when folded around the inner contents pages of the book fell short in width to cover the whole of the back side of the book!

When I discussed the issue with a Puttaparthi local shop person, he suggested trimming the whole inner contents of the book to fit the A4 size full cover! I felt that to be an odd solution. Later I confirmed from the Puttaparthi printer & DTP guy from whom I got the above mentioned staple-bound copy, that that's what he did for the staple-bound book. Comparing the width of the spiral bound book and staple-bound book shows that the staple-bound book has lesser width!

I had originally planned to give the A5 unbound sheets and colour cover on thick paper received from the Delhi online printing service to the local Puttaparthi binder (and Net shop & colour printing shop owner) who had said he would do Soft Cover binding for me. But the person seemed to have second thoughts over the course of my discussions with him later on, and so it fell through. I did not push him and backed out once I saw him becoming disinterested. Perhaps my discussions with him on various options put him off a little. I also was taken a little aback by his Rs. 40 charge for an A4 colour printout on thick (photo) paper using an inkjet printer and so decided against that. [The Delhi printer guy charged me Rs. 17 for the A4 colour printout which perhaps used a digital printer (as against an inkjet printer which is what the Puttaparthi local guy had).] Later I came to know that there are others in Puttaparthi who even charge Rs. 60 to Rs. 80 for 1 colour print on A4 size thick glossy paper using an inkjet printer. Maybe I made an error in deciding against the Rs. 40 colour print that he was going to give me. I should have accepted it as I was experimenting with various options and could afford to pay Rs. 20 more for one trial book copy. [I met him the next day and smoothened out the relationship and even paid him some money (Rs. 100) for the time he spent on discussions with me. He was very polite about it and reluctant to accept the money as he said that he had not provided me with anything. But on my pressing him to accept the money for sharing his knowledge and advising me on these book printing and binding matters about which I did not know much and was learning it, he took the money.]

Now the Soft Cover binding using local Puttaparthi shop services possibility was gone! So I gave it to the same person who gave me the above mentioned spiral-bound copy and have asked him to do spiral-binding. I hope that as in spiral binding no spine is needed, the person will cut the A4 colour cover into two - and use it for front and back cover of A5 size. I hope to get delivery of this copy over the next day or two.

Overall, these trials/experiments that I have done with Puttaparthi local shops for producing single print copies of my iami1 blogbook show that with some effort and running around one can get spiral bound and staple-bound books done, one at a time (so print-on-demand kind of arrangement), in Puttaparthi itself! However the finish will not be all that great. The cutting and trimming of pages may show some rough edges, one will also see some patches here and there, little ink spread etc. But the cost for a copy is NOT exorbitant and compares somewhat favourably with online print services for a single copy, as the courier charges for online print services for a single copy makes it slightly more expensive.

However, for ease of placing the order, the online print services are superior. I think their output quality is also better but I have not done a careful comparison yet. There is an almost one week courier delivery time issue. And in one Delhi based online printing service provider case where I placed an order with them around ten days back, I still have not received the delivery as the courier company returned it to the service provider! They told me that they will send it by Speed Post (Indian govt. postal service) at higher expense borne by them. But I have still not received it.

Sunday, April 29, 2018

Added a Printed Blogbook menu link and related 'Printed Blogbook via Online Bookshop; Less Expensive Options' page to iami1 blog

Given below are the contents of which is the page shown on 'Printed Blogbook' menu link being clicked on my iami1 wordpress blog.

Printed Blogbook via Online Bookshop; Less Expensive Options Order Page for iami1 blog book printed under title of ‘The Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science’:

The book costs (as of April 2018) Rs. 159 plus shipping, and the book ships within India only. Note that there is ***zero royalty*** to me, the author, as per my choice, which makes this price to customer, the lowest possible price (on I also have to buy the book from at the same price.

The binding will be the Soft Cover binding used by regular paperback books which are sold in regular bookshops.

Note that the above book sale page says, “Processed in 3-5 business days. Shipping Time Extra”. The 3-5 business days processing is to print and bind copy(ies) of the book as ordered (Print-On-Demand). Then comes shipping (courier delivery) time.

Less Expensive Printed Book solutions

Alternatively, especially to reduce cost of the book, users can do free download of the document and cover page pictures for paper book print version from Then they can print and spiral-bind the document using services of printing & binding shops.

The typical charges (as of April 2018) from an online printing service in Delhi is as follows:

  • Around Rs. 43 (@ Rs 0.35 per page) for printing 123 double-sided A5 size pages of Black & White inner content of book on Normal 75 GSM paper
  • Around Rs. 10 for printing Colour Cover Front page on thick (230 GSM) Glossy paper of A5 size (and similarly around Rs. 10 for printing Colour Cover Back page).
  • Rs. 20 for spiral binding

That makes it around Rs. 73 (only cover front page) or Rs. 83 (both cover pages) for the spiral-binding book copy.

Shipping charge is extra, and in the range of Rs. 50 for 1 copy alone for shipping to South India. However, the shipping charge does not increase much for more number of copies. For example, even for 10 copies order, the shipping charge to South India seems to be less than Rs. 100.

Note that online printing shops also offer Soft Cover binding but its rate for 1 book copy is around Rs. 90 which makes it roughly as expensive as sold book (for 1 copy). For an order of tens of copies like 20 copies, some discount may come into play on negotiations with the online printing service provider/shop.

I have given below the website of one such online printing service provider based in Delhi. Note that I am NOT recommending this provider and do not benefit in any way if users/readers place any orders with them. I am sharing the info. only to provide a concrete example to users/readers.

I placed one order with them of a single copy without binding and found that they seemed to have done a good job. But that is no guarantee that users/readers who use this online printing website will have a satisfactory experience. It is a risk that they will have to take.

Tomorrow – 30th April 2018 (today they seem to be closed as it is Sunday), I intend to place an order with them of 10 to 20 spiral bound copies of the book to be delivered to my Puttaparthi flat, after speaking to them about some aspects of the order. I plan to use these copies as complimentary and/or promotion copies.

Here’s the Delhi based online printing service provider website that I have referred to above: PrintOnWeb (India), Here’s their Rate Calculator page:

--- end contents of ---

Noted Free E-book Websites/Web pages having iami1 blog book (The Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation)

The iami1 blog book is available on some noted free e-book websites with the book title of:

Who am I? I am I - Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation


The Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation

These noted free e-book websites and the links for the e-book are as follows:


* Open Library:



Note that the iami1 blog book is also available at the iami1 wordpress blog as a download here:

Friday, April 27, 2018

iami1 blog book published with title 'The Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science' at; Printed copy (in India only) can be ordered online has 'self-published' my iami1 blog book and put up the print copy (yes, print copy as Print-On-Demand or POD copy) for sale at Rs.159 (zero royalty to me; cost price for author is also Rs. 159) here: The book ships within India only.

For a 123 pages black & white A5 size book with colour cover, offset printing of 500 copies would reduce cost per copy to around Rs. 40 to Rs. 50, based on the inquiries that I have made. Then such copies could be sold, after adding distributor and seller margins (zero royalty to author), at Rs 75 or so per copy.

But that needs investment of Rs. 20,000 to Rs. 25,000, headache of storing and distributing the books etc. etc. And the ****big risk**** of financial loss if people are not interested in buying the book even if it is priced around Rs. 75! And that is a very real possibility for this iami1 blog book of mine :-).

Given the above, the POD approach where people interested in having a print copy (note that ebook version is free download) pay around Rs. 160 plus shipping via online ordering, is a great option for me. No hassles of investment for 500 copies offset print run! No stocking and supplying headache! No business accounting headache!

This book sale page does not have too much info. and seems OK. The free ebook link (to the pdf stored in my blog) is shown in the book description. So people who turn up at this page and do a little bit of looking around on the page will see that a free ebook version is available. They need to pay money only for the print book.

Clicking on the book front cover small pic on the sale page opens up a preview book window/tab. Visitors can preview all of the book's inner contents (as that was what I specified).

A little while back today, I placed an order of 1 copy (as author but was shown same price of Rs. 159 as for everybody else). Shipping is Rs. 50 to South India (perhaps they do the printing & binding in North India). Standard payment options were available. I chose to pay the total amount of Rs. 209 via Net Banking.

I got the message on book shopping site that the payment has been received. I was also shown a message that "Production of the books using print on demand takes 3-5 business days for soft cover books ..."

So 3-5 business days is needed to print the book. After that comes shipping time. But they have been up front with this info. on the book sale page itself where they say, "Processed in 3-5 business days. Shipping Time Extra". So no confusion there.

I hope to receive the book in a week to ten days time. Then I will get to know the print quality of the book. seems to be a very efficiently managed company. I had done the submission yesterday night. The size and DPI (Dots Per Inch) of the cover pic (back cover + spine + front cover) that I first provided was not good enough for them. Their requirement was '(11.90" x 8.27"), 0.2" bleed on all sides, created at 300 DPI.' Went through some hoops; downloaded and used GIMP to modify existing cover pic to these specifications. Had to then centre the back+spine+front part of the pic within the border filler area. Once that got done I uploaded the new cover pic to This time around it found the submission to be OK and gave a message that the book has been lined up for review. All this was late yesterday night.

Today morning at 11.06 AM I received a mail from whose initial lines were, "Hello, Congratulations! Your book The Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science has been successfully published on It is now available on's store at .."

I have NOT PAID any money at all! I am using their bare-bones service which is ***FREE***. I am highlighting this as I would like to encourage those readers who may have thoughts of becoming book writers and then publishing their own books.

Increasing number of copies ordered reduces shipping price per copy of book

Just tried some other figures on the order page:
20 copies shipping (to Puttaparthi) is Rs. 552.50

20 copies book price is 20 * 159 = 3180 [I think 50 copies brings in a 10% discount but no discount for less than 50 as per their website info.]

But with 20 copies, per copy shipping charge comes down to 552.50/20 = 27.63 (as against Rs. 50 for a single copy).

For 10 copies, the courier charge is shown as Rs. 297.50. So per copy shipping charge comes to 297.5/10 = 29.75.

Tuesday, April 24, 2018

Hopefully stable E-Book version and document for paper book version of iami1 blog book released today; Facing challenges in printing few (20) copies of book

Last updated on 25th April 2018

Given below is the relevant extract from


E-book version (NOT ideal for printing on paper to create a paper book); A5 size (5.8″ x 8.3″); 125 pages; Version/date 24th April 2018




Print version ideal for printing on paper to create a paper book; Version/date 24th April 2018

Book print size – A5 (5.8″ x 8.3″) – Black & White PDF and Word documents – 123 pages + Colour Cover page pics



--- end extract from ----

The task of printing of the book is running into some serious issues as I DO NOT want to print many copies, at least to start with.

The self-publishing company route is not working out as all self-publishing companies (in India) seem to have a clause in the agreement that author(s) have to sign with them which opens up the author to pay for legal costs of the self-publishing company if the self-publishing company has to face legal challenges/issues related to the author's book. I am NOT willing to sign such an agreement which makes me vulnerable to paying unexpected legal costs of the publisher (in relation to my book)! I am certainly willing to face any legal challenges (e.g. copyright infringement complaint) about my book directly as I have taken due care to stay well within Indian copyright, freedom of speech and defamation laws, to the best of my knowledge, and so am confident of defeating any such challenges in Indian courts. But I don't want to take on legal costs burden of self-publishing company in this regard!

So that forces me to directly use a printer to print my books.

Offset printing which is cheap per copy seems to need a minimum order of 500 copies! That's too much for me.

To start with, I want to print only around 20 copies of this book version within a budget of Rs. 2500 to Rs. 3000. This low number of copies order is a problem with professional digital printers. One Bangalore based established printer said his minimum order would be 50 copies for digital printing (and 500 copies for offset printing). For the previous version of the iami1 blog book of 108 pages, he quoted Rs. 150 per copy with decent quality paper and binding (with minimum order of 50 copies). I am not prepared to spend Rs. 7000 to Rs. 8000 on this as I don't know whether people will be really interested in buying the book (which will have to be priced at higher than Rs. 150 to cover the seller's profit margin).

The offset printing quote from the same Bangalore based printer for the 108 pages A5 book, for 500 copies was Rs. 20,000, which comes to Rs 40 per book copy which is a low and superb price per copy. But both the Rs. 20,000 upfront cost as well as 500 copies to store, is way too much for me.

So I am having to jump through some hoops by exploring other options like using online printing services or using Puttaparthi laser printer services for printing the pages, and hopefully doing some reasonable cutting & trimming of the pages, and then using a small Puttaparthi shop which offers hand-stitched binding services. Digital colour printing (for cover pages) seems to NOT be available in Puttaparthi. I think that seems to be available in Anantapur. Note that inkjet colour printing quality is poorer than digital (laser?) printer colour printing quality. [I don't know what exactly is a 'digital' printer. But that seems to be the term used by local Puttaparthi printer(s) for higher quality printer machines.]

I think I am some weeks or perhaps even a month or two away from having my 20 printed copies of the stable version iami1 blog book whose soft copy I released today.

Eventually when I get the 20 copies, I plan to provide a few of them to bookshop(s) in outside ashram Puttaparthi. If the book sells then I hope to be able to have a mechanism by which the bookshop owner can order additional copies from a printer (with me NOT being involved in the financial transaction part of it). Now any such order from the bookshop will be for a few copies and may even be a single copy. So ideally I need to have some mechanism for the bookshop guy to order a single copy with a printer or a combo of printer and book-binder.

Essentially I am trying to organize a Print-On-Demand mechanism with facility to order even 1 copy only, for my iami1 blog book. Self-publishing companies provide that. But as explained earlier, I have some issues with their legal agreement and so cannot use self-publishing companies.

The following online printing services both based in Delhi, and, seem promising for my Print-On-Demand needs. I have placed a mix of single copy and two copies orders of different binding types (stapled, Soft Cover/Perfect binding and no binding) of previous versions of iami1 blog book, over the past few days with these two websites but have not yet received delivery from them. The upsides of their services are a low 35 paisa per page for black-and-white A5 printing (inner pages of book) and around Rs. 10 for colour cover pages. The downsides are that they charge Rs. 90 for Soft Cover/Perfect binding for a single book copy, and they have a significant shipping (courier) charge to deliver to Puttaparthi (around Rs. 45 to Rs. 55 for a single book copy shipping).

A silver lining to some extent is that at least one of the above two online printing service providers seem to be willing to consider significant discount for order of 20 books of Soft Cover/Perfect binding. Also the shipping/courier charges is expected to come down significantly per copy, when 20 copies are shipped together.

So things are not clear yet on the printing of the iami1 blog book side. I expect to be muddling through this by continuing to explore various options/mechanisms, over the next month or two.

Sunday, April 22, 2018

iami1 printed blogbook when sold at some (above-zero) price: My analysis of copyright issues with usage of Wikipedia content in it

Last updated on 24th April 2018

Note: An improved version of this post has been put up here:

This post gives my analysis of copyright matters about Wikipedia and Wikiquote content used in my iami1 printed blogbook which may be sold for a (above-zero) price with profit for printer, distributor (if any) and seller BUT NOT-FOR-PROFIT for author (Ravi S. Iyer - me). To see the for-print version soft copy of iami1 blogbook, please visit

Max Planck related quotes on back cover of iami1 blogbook

India's Copyright Act can be viewed online here: has CHAPTER V, TERM OF COPYRIGHT. It has number points (sections?).

Point (section) 22 deals with "Term of copyright in published literary, dramatic, musical and artistic works." My reading of it is that it deals with work published in the lifetime of the author. And it is 60 years from year following year of death of author (and, in case of joint authors, year of death of last author).

Point (section) 24 deals with "Term of copyright in posthumous work". My reading of it is that 60 years is the term of copyright from year following the year in which the work was first published.

Max Planck died in 1947 (over 70 years ago).

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness." was given in wikiquote,, earlier (otherwise I would not have mentioned it as the source in my blog post dated Nov. 2012, last modified on Dec. 2013), but is not mentioned in it now.

Did some Google search for the quote. lists it with the source being The Observer (25 January 1931) which seems to have been mentioned in wikiquote. provides the same quote with the source being, The Observer, London, January 25, 1931.

"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve." lists the above quote with the source as: Where is Science Going? (1932).

More than 60 years have passed since the date of the above two publications (both in the 1930s). So these two short quotes of Max Planck that I have put up on the back cover page of my iami1 blogbook are in the public domain, and so I am well within copyright law of India in publishing the quotes on the cover back page of my book.

Copyright matters about re-use of Wikipedia content in iami1 book

Given below are extracts from iami1 blogbook 18th April 2018 version/date:

CC-BY-SA (additional) license for few pages in this book

The following articles/posts in this book use significant amount of text extracts from wikipedia and wikiquotes:
1) Conversation on 'secular parenting' & religion between USA scientist & Indian technologist
2) Some Famous Scientists’ Views on God and Limits of Science
3) Why I shy away from comparisons between Physics theories like Higgs field and deep spiritual philosophy like Vedanta?

Note that Wikiquotes' Terms of Use link at the bottom of its main page,, leads to, which states that "You are free to:" .. "Share and Reuse our articles and other media under free and open licenses."

Further, going by guidelines provided in, the above articles are licensed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license (CC-BY-SA),, in addition to my Free Reuse specification (for MY CONTENT alone) given at the beginning of the book. In case of any conflict between the two licenses/reuse specifications for these articles/posts in this book, the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license (CC-BY-SA) license should be applied (override the Free Reuse specification).

Therefore my above mentioned articles/posts in this book having significant content from wikipedia and wikiquotes, I think, satisfy the conditions laid down by wikipedia and wikiquotes for sharing its content.

There may be some other articles/posts in this book which use extracts of a few sentences from wikipedia. I think that is covered under Copyright Fair Use laws and so I have not applied the Creative Commons Attribution Share-Alike license (CC-BY-SA) for those articles/posts.

--- end extact of iami1 blogbook content (related to Wikipedia content reuse) ----

The Wikipedia Terms of Use page,, states
"You are free to:".."Read and Print our articles and other media free of charge." So printing of any Wikipedia page extracts without paying Wikipedia is explicitly permitted by Wikipedia.

Note that encourages reuse of Wikipedia content. It states, "There are many reusers of Wikipedia's content, and more are welcome. If you want to use Wikipedia's text materials in your own books/articles/web sites or other publications, you can generally do so, but you must comply with one of the licenses that Wikipedia's text is licensed under."

Now the key parts of the compliance of the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported License,, that Wikipedia uses, and the way I think I have mostly met that compliance in the iami1 blogbook, are:

a) Attribution: - A relevant extract from is given below:

Re-use of text under Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike
To re-distribute a text page in any form, provide credit to the authors either by including a) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to the page or pages you are re-using, b) a hyperlink (where possible) or URL to an alternative, stable online copy which is freely accessible, which conforms with the license, and which provides credit to the authors in a manner equivalent to the credit given on this website, or c) a list of all authors. (Any list of authors may be filtered to exclude very small or irrelevant contributions.) This applies to text developed by the Wikipedia community. Text from external sources may attach additional attribution requirements to the work, which should be indicated on an article's face or on its talk page. For example, a page may have a banner or other notation indicating that some or all of its content was originally published somewhere else. Where such notations are visible in the page itself, they should generally be preserved by re-users.
--- end extract from ---

I think I have met this requirement by always providing the link to the Wikipedia page from which I have taken extracts. I have also provided attribution information to external sources where applicable in the Wikipedia extracts I have used in my iami1 blogbook, barring a few exception cases where the Wikipedia page seems to not have the corresponding extract now and I could not locate other websites having the same extract contents. As I have met this requirement, to the best of my knowledge, I think it protects me (the author & self-publisher), the printer, the distributor (if any) and the seller from any copyright infringement complaints.

b) Share Alike: "If you alter, transform, or build upon this work, you may distribute the resulting work only under the same, similar or a compatible license." - To be on the safe side, I have applied the same CC-BY-SA license to the above mentioned 3 articles/posts in the iami1 blogbook which significantly use Wikipedia extracts. So I have complied with this compliance requirement.

c) Notice: "For any reuse or distribution, you must make clear to others the license terms of this work. The best way to do that is with a link to". - As I have reused the same license and given the link of the license, for the above mentioned 3 articles/posts in the iami1 blogbook which significantly use Wikipedia extracts, I think I have complied with this compliance requirement.

Fair Use

Now about Fair Use for articles/posts in the iami1 blogbook which use extracts of a few sentences from Wikipedia. Note that USA law is used by Wikipedia itself. So we need to look at USA Fair Use law. Given below are extracts from

Fair use is a doctrine in the law of the United States that permits limited use of copyrighted material without having to first acquire permission from the copyright holder. Fair use is one of the limitations to copyright intended to balance the interests of copyright holders with the public interest in the wider distribution and use of creative works by allowing as a defense to copyright infringement claims certain limited uses that might otherwise be considered infringement.

U.S. fair use factors

Examples of fair use in United States copyright law include commentary, search engines, criticism, parody, news reporting, research, and scholarship. Fair use provides for the legal, unlicensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor test.
[Ravi: The extract below relates to a USA law (statute) and is on the wiki page too. But I have chosen to pick it up from the source mentioned by the wiki page which is ]

17 U.S. Code § 107 - Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

[--end extract from ---- end-Ravi]

[Extracts from Wiki page continue below.]

1. Purpose and character of the use

The first factor is "the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes." To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new.


2. Nature of the copyrighted work

Although the Supreme Court has ruled that the availability of copyright protection should not depend on the artistic quality or merit of a work, fair use analyses consider certain aspects of the work to be relevant, such as whether it is fictional or non-fictional.


3. Amount and substantiality

The third factor assesses the amount and substantiality of the copyrighted work that has been used. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, the more likely the use will be considered fair.


4. Effect upon work's value

The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original. The burden of proof here rests on the copyright owner, who must demonstrate the impact of the infringement on commercial use of the work.

--- end wiki extracts ---

My articles/posts in the iami1 printed blogbook which use extracts of a few sentences from Wikipedia, I think, surely conform to Fair Use as above mentioned USA Fair Use law. The iami1 printed blogbook may profit printers, distributors and sellers though it is NOT-FOR-PROFIT for me, the author. But even looking at the for-profit situation, the amount of extracts used (condition 3) in an article/post being only a few sentences, makes it 'Fair Use'. Further it does not harm the value of the free Wikipedia pages from which the extracts have been taken, as the monetary value/price charged for users/viewers to see these Wikipedia pages is free to start with. It may only popularize the Wikipedia pages and lead to more people visiting these pages and perhaps then lead to some of these people donating to Wikipedia, an organization that I presume is sustained by donations.

So I think those articles/posts in my iami1 printed blogbook (some copies of which will be sold for some price by some sellers (if some buyers show interest in buying it)) that use few sentences from Wikipedia pages come well within USA Fair Use laws, and so do not need to have a Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license like the earlier mentioned posts/articles that use significant amount of Wikipedia content.

License/Permission for printing Wikipedia content

Here are some specific statements from Wikipedia about free license/permission to print Wikipedia content and even sell it for a price. From

Wikipedia articles may be freely copied and sold commercially so long as publishers adhere to the terms of the copyright license under which the content is made available.

Publishers are allowed to sell copies of Wikipedia, and consumers, if they so choose, are allowed to pay for what they could get at no charge through the Wikimedia Foundation's websites.


Wikipedia articles can be purchased in book form from third-party publishers. Wikipedia content may also be integrated into larger commercially available books. Publishers that do so are required to adhere to the relevant copyright licenses (such as attributing article authors) but are not restricted in any way from charging for the work. They are not obliged to actively inform purchasers beforehand that the content of these books has been taken from Wikipedia, or to inform contributors that their work is being used.

--- end extracts from wiki ----

Ravi: From the above it is clear that printing wikipedia content extracts in my iami1 printed blogbook which may be sold for a price, is allowed by Wikipedia. For attribution, I have given the relevant Wikipedia link from which the content has been taken. I have additionally provided external source attribution information in the case of some extracts that I have used from Wikipedia (if they have been taken by Wikipedia from external sources).

The Wikipedia extracts in this post are licensed under Creative Commons CC-BY-SA license,

Friday, April 20, 2018

Modified Cover Front and Back pics for iami1 blogbook; Size calculations for these pics

My previous version of cover front, spine and back pics had some margin related issues as covered in my post:

When I had shown it to the printing shop operator/assistant guy he had said it was OK. He took the individual front cover page, back cover page and spine pics and said that he would do the needful in Corel Draw to get the job done. So I had presumed that he would have handled size and margin issues using compression or something like that and adding some coloured border if needed. I had not bothered about the particular pixel resolution of the pic, except for ensuring that the width to height ratio of the pic was in the width to height ratio of A5 page size (the book page size). I thought that he would use any tools he needs to compress or even expand the pic as required.

But the sample/trial copy cover pics did not reflect much of such work. Maybe he was too busy or he was not so knowledgeable about taking larger pics and compressing them, adding border areas of particular color etc. Anyway I realized that I now have to figure those things out and give him almost ready, if not ready, to print cover pics.

Given below are the steps I went through to calculate and then prepare the new version of the cover page pics.

1) A5 page size and equivalent picture pixel resolution

After some slip-ups, I learned how Microsoft Paint can be used to easily figure out the pixel resolution appropriate for a particular page size (for a default DPI - Dots Per Inch - value). The A5 page size I am using for the iami1 blogbook has a size of 5.80 x 8.30 inches. I could create a new pic or change size of existing pic, with resolution of 5.80 x 8.30 specified in inches in Paint (instead of pixels). The pic would get resized appropriately. I could then change the size option from inches to pixels. It then showed the pixel resolution for the chosen size (5.80 x 8.30 inches) (for a default DPI - Dots Per Inch). I don't think it is necessary for me to get into the DPI matter and just go with the default that Paint uses.

Paint showed a pixel resolution of 696x996 for the 5.80 x 8.30 inches size jpeg/jpg picture.

2) Coloured (colour fill) border and inner pic size calculations

I decided to have a 5% coloured (colour fill) border on four sides of the previous cover front and back page pics. This border would provide room to easily trim the cover page printout to fit the rest of the book without losing text and other graphic content of the cover pics.

A rough 10% reduction (left 5% + right 5%) calculation for the A5 width of 5.8 inches was 5.8 - 0.6 = 5.2 inches.

A similar rough 10% reduction (top 5% + bottom 5%) calculation for the A5 height of 8.3 inches was 8.3 - 0.85 = 7.45 inches.

[I think I should have been more precise in these calculations. I should have used 5.8 - 0.58 = 5.22 inches for width and 8.3 - 0.83 = 7.47 inches. Maybe I will do that in future.]

This 5.2x7.45 inches is the size of the inner pic within the cover front and back pages which would have a coloured (colour fill) border around them. Paint gives corresponding pixel size as 623x893

3) Compression of previous cover pics to inner pic size

Now the next question for me was whether I should re-create from scratch the cover front page and cover back page as this 623x893 pixel resolution pics. I was not prepared to spend so much time on it now (perhaps will do that in some future version of the blogbook, if at all the blogbook gets into such future versions).

Instead I looked at the option of taking the previous version cover front and back page pics and using a pic compression tool to compress them to this 623x893 size. So that's what I did.

The previous cover front page and back page pics had pixel resolution of 1083x1536 and 1084x1536 respectively.

I used free web facility to compress cover front page and cover back page pics to 623x893 size. These compressed pics are given below.

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

I felt that compression has not really (significantly) reduced readability of text in the cover pics and has not introduced any significant distortions. So I think the above compressed pics may be fine to use as inner pic for the cover page pics.

4) Creation of canvas pic for cover front and back pages and insertion of inner pics at proper place within it

Full page pic size is 696x996. Inner pic size is 623x893.

696 - 623 = 73. Half of that is 36.5. So position for centring left edge of inner pic on X axis (width) would be 36.
996 - 893 = 103. Half of that is 51.5. So position for centring top edge of inner pic on Y axis (height) would be 51.

I created a new empty full page canvas pic with size 696x996. I filled the full page canvas pic with a light blue (pastel) colour.

Within that canvas pic I put up a text box with its left edge at 36, 51. This text box would be fully overlaid by the inner pic with the left edge of the inner pic aligning with the left edge of text box. That pic is given below.

5) Insertion of inner cover page pics into canvas

This was a copy-paste operation from one Paint program instance having an inner cover page (front or back) pic open, into another Paint program instance having the canvas pic with text box showing where exactly the inner page pic should be pasted. Mouse move of to-be-pasted pic followed by keyboard cursor arrow keys helped to position it precisely. The pics produced with this procedure are given below:

6) Filler Spine size calculations and pic

I felt that while a spine with a printed caption on it was not necessary a filler spine with same colour fill as the border colour fill of the front and back cover pages would be appropriate to use.

The blogbook thickness is around quarter inch. So the Filler Spine pic should be 0.25x8.3 inch.

0.25x8.3 inch is converted by Paint to 30x995 pixels.

Expanded that to 30x996 pixels which converts to 0.25x8.3 inch. 30x996 is the appropriate resolution to use.

Given below is the filler spine pic rotated by 90 degrees to be horizontal (to save space on this blog post)

7) Full Cover Pic with front page, spine filler and back page

The full cover with front page, back page and spine filler will be printed in colour on thick and glossy paper (don't know if the Puttaparthi printer will give me Matte and any other options for my small order). I guess that the order and orientation of the combination of pics will be as follows:

a) Back cover page pic followed by Spine Filler followed by Front cover page pic.

b) This pic should be printed in Landscape orientation mode. [OR the pic should be rotated to the right by 90 degrees and then printed in Portrait mode.]

The inner content book will be placed on the middle of non printed side of this full cover colour printout (long and thick paper) with front cover and back cover pages part of the full cover folded around the inner content and pasted/glued to spine part of inner content.

The Full Cover pic resolution width will be 696+30+696 = 1422 pixels. And height will be the same 996 pixels. So resolution will be 1422x996.

In inches it should be width: 5.8+0.25+5.8 = 11.85 inches. And height will be the same 8.3 inches
So inches resolution is 11.85x8.3.

Given below is the full cover pic done by first opening a copy of back page with border pic and increasing its size to above specifications. In the blank area, the front page with border pic and then the filler spine pic were copy-pasted.

I have also given below a rotated by 90 degrees version of above pic.

8) Printing of full cover pic could be done via Paint or Corel Draw or similar program

To print the pic on thick and glossy paper, I think it may be as straightforward as opening the pic in Paint or Corel Draw or similar program, setting page margins to zero, choosing fit picture to page/frame option (so appropriate minor expansion/compression is done), choosing Landscape (or leave it as default Portrait if the rotated pic is used), and issuing the Print command. I tried it with Paint by printing the 90 degree rotated pic file (don't recall which page size I used - maybe it was A4 or Letter size), to a PDF file (instead of a printer) and it came out well. There was just a slight edge of white (on one side only in this case) which would happen with a real printer too and which would need to be trimmed.

Wednesday, April 18, 2018

Sample/trial print of iami1 blogbook shows issues related to stapled book, page margins, cover pic and font size

Last updated on 21st April 2018

Here are some pics of the sample/trial print of iami1 blogbook (1 sample/trial copy of printed book) that I received today from the Puttaparthi printer that I had placed the order with, around 5 days ago.

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

Above two pics are of the front cover page with some light reflection or flash appearing in the pics (in different places). [Due to a slip up, I missed including the NOT-FOR-PROFIT text at the bottom of the pic that I provided to the shop.]

Above pic is the Back cover page

Book Spine

Above two pics show how stapled book is less convenient to keep open as compared to Soft Cover binding/Perfect binding book. Left margins also need to be bigger for stapled book as otherwise the text at the edge of the left margin becomes difficult to read.

Solutions to above issues:

1) Reduce font size and/or gaps between lines of Front Page cover text (overlay) and Back page cover text (overlay) so as to leave an (additional) quarter inch margin on 4 sides. One approach is to have a margin as some colour filled border with the nature pic inside the borders.

2) Spine pic is not necessary as the book thickness is very less.

3) Book inner content page should have additional quarter (1/4) inch margin on Left and Right.

4) Book inner content font size 11 (Times New Roman font) is readable but a book shop owner view was that font size should be slightly bigger (say font size 12).

I was told that this copy is a trial copy and so the trimming and finish have some issues. The shop guy (operator/assistant who did all the work himself to print, cut, trim, staple and glue this sample/trial copy) told me that if I order for 20 copies minimum then the book copies will have better finish with cover page being thicker, cover colour print being from a 'digital' printer (as against inkjet printer for this sample/trial copy), and the paper cutting/trimming as well as book cover being glued to book's inner contents being better. He said that this sample/print copy was done with lesser/less capable facilities & tools whereas the 20 copies minimum order will be done at another location with more/better facilities & tools.

[Update: The sentences below reflect what seems to have been a miscommunication. The minimum order expected is 100 copies NOT 20 copies.]

This trial copy (91 pages of content + cover pages) cost me Rs. 95.

The quote for 100 pages of inner content + colour cover pages book with better finish, but still stapled book, is Rs. 100 per copy with minimum order of 20 copies.

It is clear that Soft Cover binding/Perfect binding is preferable to Stapled (binding). But the hassle is that from this Puttaparthi printer, I am not getting the option of Soft Cover binding/Perfect binding for low number of copies order like 20 copies.  I was told that offset printing order will have Soft Cover binding/Perfect binding. Initially I was told that minimum order for offset printing is 500 copies! That would be a waste of money and even waste of book copies. As of now, even if they offer 100 copy offset printing with Soft Cover binding/Perfect binding, I am not sure I will be interested unless it is a really sweet deal.

As it is my first printed copy of my first (blog)book, even if it is a trial/sample copy, I thanked the printer operator/assistant as well as an elder person who was there in the shop today, for helping me to produce my first regular printed book. They smilingly acknowledged my thanks. The elder person who seems to be a veteran in this business, told me that they had helped many such people (in Puttaparthi) to produce their first books (authored by them). The elder also provided valuable advice on how to fix some of the problems in the trial/sample print copy. I could see that he is quite knowledgeable about matters like font size, spacing between lines, cover page etc.

[Update: The paragraph below (this update) seems to be based on a miscommunication. I was later told that they cannot accept a 20 copies order (even though the 20 copies will be stapled and will not use Soft Copy/Perfect binding)! Minimum order is 100 copies! That was a surprise as I thought that they were willing to provide 20 copies of stapled book.]

Overall, I am very happy that in Puttapaarthi town itself, for slightly less than Rs. 100, I was able to produce my first (blog)book trial/sample copy having around 90 pages of content and glossy colour cover page (with some thickness). That gives me a good feeling about Puttaparthi small town capability to produce books which would be, I guess, typically on spirituality & religion, with a small budget of a few thousand Rupees for few copies (e.g. 20 copies of stapled book of 100 pages with colour cover page, costing Rs. 2000 + Rs. 100 for trial/sample copy). [Not valid anymore. See Update paragraph above this paragraph.

An Indian correspondent who has authored books, wrote over email (and was OK with sharing):

A very exciting occasion: to see the printed version of the book you have laboured over!

Ravi responded (slightly edited): :-). Thanks a ton, --Name-snipped--. You know how it feels :-).

A USA based correspondent wrote (I have presumed he would be OK with sharing based on previous such cases):

Dear Ravi - Hearty congratulations on your first published book! I am sure  readers would be benefited by reading it!

My best wishes!

Ravi responded (slightly edited): Thank you so much, --Name-snipped--. I really appreciate your kind and encouraging words.

Terry Reis Kennedy wrote (and was OK with sharing):
Looks terrific, Ravi!  Congratulations.

[Ravi: Terry is an author, an editor and a publisher of books. She has been providing and continues to provide professional services to others to publish books in India and USA. The logos she used for her clients is Tiger Moon Productions. Presently her Logo is Red Clover Productions. Red Clover also produces videos.]

Ravi responded (slightly edited): Thanks Terry for your encouragement for this newbie at printing books :-). I am learning about cover design and other issues associated with printing books. So even for this first printed book of mine, there is some more work to be done, and I am focusing almost all my attention on that task. But I can now see light at the end of the tunnel!

Sunday, April 15, 2018

iami1 blog book colour back (cover) page pic, spine pic and full cover pic

Here's the back (cover) page pic that I intend to use for future colour cover prints of iami1 blogbook (used one of my pics as the background image).

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

Here's the book spine pic rotated horizontally for preserving vertical room on this post:

And here's the full cover pic with front cover + spine + back (cover) page pics stitched together as one pic. My understanding is that this full pic (or similar one) will be printed on one long glossy thick quality paper. Then the bound/stapled Black & White inner contents of the iami1 book will be placed (and glued, I guess) in the middle of this long glossy thick paper (after pic is printed) with the front cover page part and back (cover) page part of the pic being folded around the book inner contents, to become front cover page and back (cover) page of the book.

Saturday, April 14, 2018

iami1 blogbook colour front cover pic

Just created a color pic with text overlaid on it as a possible option to use as front cover page for the blog book future prints, if color front cover is not too expensive.

I used pics that I had taken in the past and Paint 3D program to do it.

The front cover pic is given below:

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

It is cluttered as compared to regular book covers. But this is a blog book - I felt it appropriate to convey this amount of info. on the cover itself to potential buyers/readers. Then it is up to them whether they want to buy/ spend time to go through the contents inside.

Any suggestions/thoughts are welcome.

Friday, April 13, 2018

Miscellaneous posts & comments on Facebook in April 2018

Given below is a comment I made on Mr. V.R. Ganti's post,, dated 25th April 2018 :

[The post is about changes being made in top Sai university administration positions.]

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Vr Ganti sir: I too heard that. Let's hope the new Registrar follows Bhagavan's Sanathana Dharma teaching of Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara which is also one of the important mottos of the Sai university, in execution of his duties as Registrar. Yatha Raja Tatha Praja - As is the king so are the subjects. If the Registrar humiliates teachers and does droham (harm) to them, then all the praja of Sai university will also try to emulate him.

If the Registrar upholds Sathya & Dharma and respects teachers, especially free service teachers with designations of Honorary Staff or Honorary Faculty or Visiting Faculty (common designations given to such free service teachers) who do or did their service work as an offering to Bhagavan without expectation of monetary benefit, then that will percolate through the university system.

I was discussing this today with a gentleman. The person coming in to take up the position of Registrar has a good reputation in general of being a soft-spoken and decent person. In my personal interactions with him, I have found him to be a nice person. But then I had found the to-be-replaced OR replaced Registrar also to be a decent guy in my interactions with him PRIOR TO HIM BECOMING REGISTRAR. After he became Registrar, something weird seems to have happened to him!

The challenge is whether the position of Registrar will impact the behaviour of the new or to-be Registrar in a negative way. Abuse of power was rampant and almost an established culture in Sai university system earlier. I mean, once a guy got into position of power in the Sai university system he was expected to abuse his power!!! No jokes! People would say things like once a guy gets the power of the pen, he changes. Coming from an international software industry background, it took me a little while to understand what 'power of the pen' means. It means the signatory authority that powerful positions in the university like Vice-Chancellor, Registrar and Controller of Examinations have.

I hasten to add that 'pen being mightier than the sword', of course, was a well known saying to me. But that is about a writer's writings, when such writings are followed by many people, being mightier than physical-level power. The 'power of the pen' phrase used in the university administrator context meant something else.

A very insightful quote is attributed to Abraham Lincoln by some, which I think is very relevant to quote in this context. The quote is: "Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.",

Hopefully now such abuse of power as a culture in Sai university is a thing of the past. And it better be, as India today has far lesser tolerance to any record tampering (criminal offence under the Indian Penal Code) and other abuse of power. We see cases of top university administrators in various parts of the country including Andhra Pradesh, being arrested by the police for wrongdoing.

Sorry if the words I have used above seem harsh. But quite unfortunately Indian academic system in general is in a terrible and pathetic state today with rampant Asathya and Adharma, and I think that seems to have impacted the Sai university too in the past. It is better to say the tough words now and hope that the new or to-be Registrar realizes that 2018 India is very different from 2008 India, and takes good care to ensure that Bhagavan's beloved university follows Bhagavan's instruction for the Sai university of Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara.

I wish the new or to-be Registrar all the best and hope that he gives top value to Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara and does not compromise on those values for matters like NAAC grading (NAAC is an Indian academic institution grading body) or high-value academic/scientific grants from govt. grant agencies. The emphasis of Bhagavan, in my considered view, was on spiritual values and NOT top NAAC grading or high-value academic/scientific grants. There are other institutions in the country like Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) and Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs), funded largely by the tax payer (govt. funded) who can focus on top NAAC grading (or NBA - a grading body for engineering institutions - grading) and big scientific grants. In my considered view, Bhagavan did not found the Sai university to try to emulate IISc or IITs or IIMs.

In my considered view, Bhagavan founded the Sai university to deeply instill the values of Sathya, Dharma, Shanti, Prema and Ahimsa among students, along with equipping them with good knowledge and skills (so that they can get decent jobs and earn a decent living). I think Bhagavan wanted these students who later became/become members of society at large, to reinvigorate these values of Sathya, Dharma, Shanti, Prema and Ahimsa in society in general. And anybody who has been following current world events including the scary phenomenon of Fake News on social media and its use in interference in democratic elections of powerful countries like the USA, as well as insane acts of hatred-induced violence and killing in several countries of the world including India, knows how badly the world at large needs people who follow Sathya, Dharma, Shanti, Prema and Ahimsa.

Given below are some comment exchanges from  Mr. Ganti's post,, dated 24th April 2018:

[Mr. Ganti's post was directed at Mr. Nimish Pandya, All India President of Sathya Sai organization where he has requested Mr. Pandya to make efforts to bring UNITY (in Sathya Sai movement).]

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Does anybody know whether Nimish Pandya has publicly said one word criticizing Muddenahalli group, so far? I appreciate SSSCT trustee Late Shri V. Srinivasan (who also was former All India President of Sathya Sai orgn.) and current trustee Shri S.S. Naganand for having the ****guts**** to publicly criticize Muddenahalli group for going against teachings of Bhagavan in respect of mediums & communicators (never to believe in them).

My considered view is that Narasimhamurthy and Madhusudan Rao Naidu have directly disobeyed our beloved and revered Gurudev Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's instructions related to mediums and communicators (to never believe in such claims).

What is the use of UNITY so long as these two traitors to Sathya Sai continue their betrayal of Bhagavan? I don't want to have any part of such unity as I don't want to associate in any way with people who directly disobey such very important instructions of Bhagavan.

I am sorry if my words are harsh. But this matter is such a vital matter that I felt it is better to be clear even if harsh rather than try to be polite which would have made my comment ambiguous and wishy-washy.

Vr Ganti wrote: I hope this is not the view of the leaders in the org who matter

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Any particular point you disagree with Vr Ganti sir? I presume you will NOT want any form of UNITY which involves accepting the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudan Rao Naidu as so called communicator of so called subtle body of Bhagavan based in Muddenahalli. Or is my presumption wrong?

Vr Ganti wrote: No compromise whatsoever in or with SWAMI’s TEACHINGS

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Wonderful Vr Ganti sir! I knew that you would NOT compromise on this vital instruction & teaching of Bhagavan. But I wanted to ensure that all readers also know that your earnest efforts to achieve UNITY in Sai orgn. will NOT involve compromising on this vital matter.

Given below are few selected comments from Terry Reis Kennedy's Facebook post,, 20th April 2018

Terry Reis Kennedy wrote: I just received this message from someone who obviously does not want to comment on the post.. Is there anyone who can verify if THETRUESAIWEEBLY.COM USED THE CORRECT PHOTO THE ORIGINAL POST HAD NO PHOTO. I CANNOT GET INTO THE SITE TO LEAVE A MESSAGE.

Just saw a FB post from you sharing this link:

I don't know the face of Ranganatha Raju. So I could be wrong. But I think the pic of the person (who may have the same name) is of an elder person than the alumnus Ranganatha Raju who seems to have been a cohort of Madhusudan Naidu.

You may want to check with some alumnus who knows Ranganatha Raju the author of the article, that you and/or truesai have got the right person's pic.

[Ravi: My message to Terry was from the 'Just saw a FB post ...' part.]

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Thought I should mention that it was I who had sent the message to Terry Reis Kennedy which she has reproduced as a comment above. I try nowadays to stay away from posts related to SSSIHL and SSSIHL alumni who are not known personally to me (I don't know Ranganatha Raju), as I am trying to put away in the background, the very bad experiences I had with SSSIHL administrators after Mahasamadhi (where SSSIHL faculty and (non-teaching) staff colleagues did ****ZERO****/ *****NOTHING**** to counter the SSSIHL administrators who were harassing and humiliating me). At times in Facebook conversations, when I feel it is appropriate to let people know the history of SSSIHL ***Hijack*** from around Jul 2011 to Nov. 2014 by Muddenahalli group due to the traitor vice-chancellor Shasidhara Prasad and some traitor-collaborator SSSIHL administrators who backed Prasad and his mentor/guide, B.N. Narasimhamurthy who has proved to be the biggest traitor to Sathya Sai after Mahasamadhi, I share my knowledge about it, as I did in some recent comment exchanges on Facebook.

Other than that I try to consciously just stay away from SSSIHL related matters and matters related to SSSIHL alumni who I do not know personally. That is why I did not want to publicly comment on this post and instead chose to send a private message to Terry.

Given below is a comment of mine from, post dated 17th April 2018:

Sai Ram Vr Ganti sir! I will presume it is a recent pic and so comment on it. If Mr. Isaac Tigrett (IT) did this some time back and has stopped doing so now, then my comment may please be ignored. I am ready to delete the comment if that is the case.

Now I actually am very busy with other things now. But still I am taking the time to comment on this. Why?

Well, to be honest, I was never a form-guy teacher in the Sai university as a free service teacher from Jan. 2003 to Mar 2012 (with designations of Honorary Staff, Honorary Faculty and Visiting Faculty) and preferred to keep some distance from physical form Sathya Sai as I was focused on my individual sadhana and did not want to get too deeply involved in either the Sai university or the Prsanthi Nilayam ashram system. So I prefer that other regular and paid teachers of the Sai university who were form-boys or form-guys with lots & lots of close physical interactions with Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, the revered founder-chancellor of the Sai university, ***publicly*** criticize IT's act of having what seems to be beer along with Sai students (of Muddenahalli group)!! It is Narasimhamurthy, former warden of Sai university, who should be publicly and critically commenting on this. It is Madhu Baba, two time gold-medallist alumnus of Sai university who should be doing so.

It is key administrators of Sai university now, including Sai alumni holding Sai university administrative posts, who should be publicly criticizing IT's above act. Why are they silent and staying away from all this? I don't know. Maybe it is ***fear***. Why criticize and become a target of Muddenahalli group DIRTY-TRICKS-SQUAD/Cambridge-Analytica-type Facebook Fake-ID SQUAD most of whom seem to be based in Melbourne, Australia with some of them being Sai university alumni? Let them do what they want. I think that seems to be their attitude.

Now should I also keep quiet? I do not fear the Muddenahalli DIRTY-TRICKS-SQUAD who seem to be based in Melbourne, Australia and seem to have supporters in Prasanthi Nilayam ashram, Sai university and outside ashram Puttaparthi. But I have lots of other work on my plate. So shall I also take the view, let them do what they want? And say it is all Bhagavan's Leela? In course of time, everything will get resolved?

Well, I have to follow what my conscience prompts me to do. I am deeply grateful to (physical form) Bhagavan for all that he did for me, by acting as my spiritual master, and the wonderful legacy he has left behind which I continue to benefit from spiritually. It was Bhagavan personally who approved my free Seva at the Sai university when he was asked about it by then vice-chancellor S.V. Giri in Jan. 2003 in the interview room, if I recall correctly (I was not present there but was told about it). It was Bhagavan who stood by me, (with Bhagavan) upholding Sathya & Dharma in my crisis period in early 2010 after which I became much more deeply devoted to Bhagavan. Otherwise there were a few Sai university administrators and few university staff who would have been happy to throw me out of Sai university then itself. And some of them did succeed in using their Shakuni Poison tactics to harass me and humiliate me after Bhagavan Mahasamadhi when Bhagavan was not present in physical form to uphold Sathya & Dharma values in Sai university, due to which I terminated my association with Sai university in disgust in March 2012.

So my gratitude to Bhagavan for guiding me spiritually and upholding Sathya & Dharma in my own case in Sai univeristy, prompts me to NOT be a silent witness to this act of IT done under the umbrella of FALSE BELIEF communicator Madhusudan Rao Naidu and his main promoter, ex warden of Sai university, Narasimhamurthy. I ***know*** from my over eight years in the Sai university, Prasanthi Nilayam campus, in the DIVINE PRESENCE of physical form Sathya Sai, that Bhagavan would be ***furious*** with any teacher/mentor who drinks alcohol in front of his beloved Sai students, thereby leading the students to view drinking alcohol not only as an okay thing to do, but perhaps as a 'cool' thing to do. If I had ever done that (though as I said before I stopped drinking alcohol 25 years ago), I would be terrified of the ***fury*** with which Bhagavan would have looked at me during Darshan. So such a thing is ***unthinkable*** to any Sai university teacher who has served in the DIVINE PRESENCE of physical form Sathya Sai.

Now I need to say that I have enjoyed not only beer but other alcohol quite a bit in my youth. I stopped drinking alcohol around 25 years ago but I have rather fond memories of my alcohol drinking days including in joints similar to this one shown in the IT pic, mostly in Europe but a little in USA too. Now IT may enjoy his alcohol now. That's fine by me. But let him NOT ***corrupt*** Muddenahalli Group Sai students by claiming to be a Sathya Sai spiritual leader and then indulging in this behaviour with Sai students.

Where is the great Tyagajeevi Narasimhamurthy, the mentor of Muddenahalli Group? Why is he keeping silent on this? Does he approve of this behaviour? If he does not condemn such behaviour ***publicly*** then Muddenahalli Group Sathya Sai devotees should boycott Narasimhamurthy. Then he is not fit to be a Sathya Sai spiritual mentor. He should then rename his group as Madhu Baba group and call himself mentor of Madhu Baba students!


Given below are few comments form, 7th April 2018:

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Vr Ganti sir, I think you should take it easy with celebrities like Sunil Gavaskar and Sachin Tendulkar. They may not have much time to dig deep into Sathya Sai teachings and instructions related to mediums and communicators. I think they are dazzled by the free medical service initiatives of Muddenahalli group, and so may be lending the support of their name and presence to such free medical service initiatives.

Vr Ganti wrote: Ravi S. Iyer GARU - I don’t agree at all with your views. They have enough intelligence working for them. You probably may not be aware of the influence C SRINIVAS has over these people. These celebrities think that whatever CS says is BIBLE and that is the problem Sir. If I tell you my source you will be amazed.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Vr Ganti sir, Oh! If you have "classified" information about the matter then you are far more knowledgeable than me on this. So you may be right and I may be wrong.

However, sir, bear in mind that even Prime Minister Modi, chief ministers Raman Singh (Chhattisgarh) and Devendra Fadnavis (Maharashtra), also have participated in Muddenahalli functions.

If we become publicly and strongly critical of all such important leaders and celebrities in India who are associating with Muddenahalli group, then we may face a negative backlash.

I was told that Shiv Kumar Sharma (Santoor player) visited Prasanthi Nilayam some time back. He was permitted to sit in the verandah/VIP area but was not otherwise shown great support and encouragement (due to his having prominently associated with Muddenahalli group). I think that was the right approach PN authorities took. These are big people. They need to be treated with dignity but at the same time they need to be told politely (in an explicit or implicit way) that they are being misguided by Narasimhamurthy, Madhusudan Naidu and other leaders of Muddenahalli group.

Now that's my view. Perhaps you sir prefer to take a more aggressive approach against such celebrities and top leaders. That is your choice sir. I only conveyed my humble view of the matter. Jai Sai Ram!


On a non-public Facebook post, Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): --Name-snipped--, I think Draupadi's case when she was being disrobed in the court of the Kauravas (after Yudishtra had foolishly gambled and lost wagers one of which was related to his and his family's freedom), is a relevant example here. Draupadi prayed to Krishna intensely - that intensity of her prayer resulted in the miracle of her sari becoming virtually endless due to which the disrobing attempt failed.

Human history is full of terrifying stuff, including Indian history. War is the big thing in history as it usually has been war that has changed established orders. And war has been utterly sickening and very scary in human history. Rape, torture sometimes only for the revenge-fun of it, .... is the common theme.

I guess that it was only after the Geneva Convention (19th and 20th century),, that rape (and capture of defeated enemy's women as sex slaves) as a terrifying weapon of war was outlawed.

But we saw in Iraq and Syria in the past few years that every fighting group in war does not follow the Geneva Convention!

I think the promise of Avatars and deities is that if one prays intensely to them for protection from such horror, then (and perhaps only then), they will intervene to protect their devotee.

Intense prayer of the level that Draupadi did when she got saved by the miracle, cannot be easily obtained. I think that is something that is developed over years and even decades.

From, dated 11th April 2018

Melbourne, Australia seems to have a lot of such scamsters! Hmm.

An extract from the article:

Hanna Dickenson, 24, accepted A$42,000 (£22,000; $31,000) after telling her parents that she needed medical treatment overseas.

Her parents had received donations from their friends, a court was told. It heard Dickenson spent much of the money on holidays and socialising.

A judge called the scam "despicable".

Dickenson had pleaded guilty in the Melbourne Magistrates' Court to seven charges of obtaining property by deception.

--- end extract ---

Such is life! Scamsters are here, there and everywhere! Genuine people in need of help must be helped when possible/feasible, but donors should do due diligence to know that it is a genuine case and not a scam.
--- end text content of FB post ---

Given below are some comments on above post:

Terry Reis Kennedy wrote: She gets arrested. But India sleeps while Madhusudan Rao Naidu.... continues to dig deeper and deeper into the pockets of "devotees" who turned their backs on Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai and went running to see two of the biggest scammers in recent history....using the Sacred Name to collect millions. Yes, Baloney Boy and his Mentor the Gold Digger are free to fly all over the world and to steal more money and appear to be getting away with their SCAM. Well, India is no Australia. But the Poorna Avatar is still the Poorna Avatar so ultimately they will be exposed as the traitors they are. Meantime, their philosophy seems to be eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow we may be in HELL.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Well, Terry Reis Kennedy, my understanding of Indian and USA law is that first one needs a police complaint about donation obtained under fraud. In this Australia case the donation was obtained under clearly and easily provable fraud as the person concerned was NOT sick.

In Madhusudan Naidu case, even under USA law, I repeat, USA law, even if some donor comes forward in the USA and makes a complaint for fraud against him, I think it will not be easy to successfully prosecute him. That's my view. But I am not a legal specialist and so I could be wrong.

And I don't think even in Austalian law, prosecution of Madhusudan Naidu for fraud will be easy.

The crux for such a fraud case would be using money received as donation for causes other than what were specified at the time the donation was solicited. If somebody gives money for a school, and after operating expenses are deducted, if bulk of the money goes towards the school, then I don't think there is any case of fraud. And I think that will be the case in India, Australia and USA.

Terry Reis Kennedy wrote: Ravi S. Iyer The crime is collecting money in the name of Sathya Sai Baba when He specifically spoke against doing so. The collection of monies by deception is very serious in USA and that is why Swami engaged Robert Baskin to make the copyright legalities in the USA years ago. Robert Baskin is the husband of the late Diana Baskin.. The Frauds can easily be stopped in the USA. Robert Baskin did serve a warning "letter" to the Frauds when they appeared at Harvard last year.......I do not know, however, what further action, if any has been taken. Robert Baskin has not responded to the many letters sent to him by Sai activists in India and in USA> A meeting was held at the VIP Residence in Prasanthi Nilayam regarding this matter last year.....At that time, Leonardo Pablo Gutter spoke to a few Sai Activists present and reported to us that Robert Baskin was going forward with some kind of action. When I wrote to Leonardo Pablo Gutter twice about "the action" he said that he, too, had not been informed. He was speaking to us at that time as a representative of Dr. Narendranath Reddy, USA citizen and head of the Sri Sathya Sai International Organization. Dr. Reddy is also remaining silent on this matter.......

Ravi S. Iyer Terry Reis Kennedy, you wrote, "The crime is collecting money in the name of Sathya Sai Baba when He specifically spoke against doing so." I think that is not an easy case to prove in USA and India courts of law (and perhaps Australian court of law as well) as Sathya Sai himself has given up the physical body (legal view would be that he is dead).

Perhaps that's why you don't hear much about further action in USA from Sai orgn. against Muddenahalli group.

My impression is that in India such a case will be very difficult to win against any NGO doing social service like Muddenahalli group. Sathya Sai will be viewed by Indian court of law as a great saint who taught and ***practiced*** charitable/free service to the poor and needy. Any NGO that shows that it is doing such charitable/free service to the poor and needy with the bulk of the money that it has collected using the name of Sathya Sai, will probably get the support of the court of law in India.

Given below are mainly my comments from Facebook post,, 10th April 2018

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I read some of the comments put up on this post and felt that I should make an overview comment.

Some of us have chosen to fight for Sathya and Dharma in Puttaparthi and reverse the HIJACK done of some parts of Prasanthi Nilayam by Muddenahalli group and their sympathizers. Terry Reis Kennedy has been at the forefront of this effort, and even after she moved back to Vermont, USA, continues to fight for Sathya & Dharma in Puttaparthi.

The brutal reality of communities including ashram communities is that it is lack of resistance from most people that makes it possible for a few power crazy and megalomaniacal people to dominate over the community and hijack it.

That it could happen even to parts of Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system after Sathya Sai Mahasamadhi was truly astonishing, at least to me! But it did happen. And the reversal of the HIJACK was won by fighting hard (not at physical level though physical level threats were made by Muddenahalli group supporters) for Sathya & Dharma. I will not forget the vital role Terry played in that fight and reversal of the HIJACK.

Some had chosen to fight initially but then had enough of it and decided to move on. That's their choice and must be respected.

Some have (or had) chosen to sit on the fence and enjoy benefits of both Puttaparthi and Muddenahalli! It is not a stand that I respect and I think it reflects the shallowness of their understanding and practice of the teachings and instructions of our beloved and revered Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. But then we all have our weakness including me. Perhaps they have their weaknesses which leads them to do that.

But as a matter of honour and fairness, I think people who benefit (or benefited) from Puttaparthi system (through salary and/or other kind of benefits like room and medical care) but act (or acted) as recruiting-agents and missionaries for Muddenahalli group in Puttaparthi are behaving (or behaved) in a very dishonourable and unfair way - in an Asathya and Adharma way. To put it bluntly, they poach (or poached) on Puttaparthi system even while they benefit (or benefited) from it.

Terry Reis Kennedy wrote (edited): Ravi S. Iyer Thank you for your remarkable reply. It helps readers to understand how difficult it is for those of us living in Parthi to tolerate how we are treated by the fraud herd settled there in their often illegal quarters. The come and go as they please and do not even fill up the necessary ... --snip--

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Thanks --name-snipped-- for your wonderful contribution to Sathya Sai legacy via your blog, Children of Light. I certainly appreciate what you have done to protect and preserve Sathya Sai legacy.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: As a resident of Puttaparthi for over 15 years now, and as a person who was in Sai university at the time of the ***GREAT BETRAYAL*** by some top people of Sai university like ex-vice chancellor Sashidhara Prasad, ex long time warden Narasimhamurthy, two time Gold medallist alumnus, Madhusudan Rao Naidu along with traitor-collaborators who collaborated with them and ousted from the Sai university, those who dared to question the traitors & traitor-collaborators, I know what damage was done to Puttaparthi by Muddenahalli group and how.

I know how they maligned ***in private*** the top people of Prasanthi Nilayam ashram including brother Satyajit Salian who was praised by Bhagavan in public for his dedicated service to Him (Bhagavan). And in public they (Muddenhalli group) talked of "Help Ever Hurt Never" and never to criticize anybody and all that. What horrible hypocrisy!!!

Those cheap people said that Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba was tortured in Prasanthi Nilayam! One of the top Sai university traitors is also reported to have said that to some Karnataka senior Sai orgn. person. This is how they maligned Prasanthi Nilayam system. It was like the tactics used in political campaigns!

But all these dirty tricks they indulged in won them huge support and huge money. Like dirty tricks department of political parties sometimes win elections for their party/leader, Muddenahalli group won donors and devotees to their side with their dirty tricks! This is the truth.

Very few people had the ***guts*** to expose these fellows and face the vicious hatred and vicious 'fake news' malice that Muddenahalli group attacked any such people who became truth tellers to Sathya Sai community about what had happened.

Yes, exposing the conspiracy and malice of Muddenahalli group towards Prasanthi Nilayam ashram, is NOT a pleasant thing. If you want to experience peace and joy it is better to stay away from reading about such horrible truth.

But it is such ****truth**** that helped Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system overcome the horrible period that it suffered from a few months after Mahasamadhi till mid 2016 (an around 5 year period) when Muddenahalli group supporters freely recruited devotees and donors in Prasanthi Nilayam, and when Muddenahalli group supporters in Prasanthi Nilayam system ***mocked*** those of us who chose to be loyal to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba and help in reversing the hijack of parts of Prasanthi Nilayam system.

This was not a pretty thing and not for faint hearts. It was an emotional fight (which fortunately did not, so far at least, descend into physical fight) that drained and even negatively impacted the health of those of us who chose to fight for reversal of HIJACK of parts of Prasanthi Nilayam system by Muddenahalli group.

Terry Reis Kennedy has been the great fighter in this activity. She fought for the truth even as this fight led to her losing friends and which perhaps negatively impacted her financial situation as well.

I am very grateful to Terry for her investigative journalism kind of work in this matter. I fully support Terry continuing this activity of hers if that is what her heart and her nature prompts her to do.

In the career of Avatars, there are some who choose to fight for the Avatar, even laying down their lives for the Avatar. Jatayu was the bird-king who knew he may lose his life in fighting Ravana who was kidnapping Sita but fight he did and lost his life. But as he lay mortally wounded and close to death, it was Lord Rama who came to him, heard his account and gave him water to drink (and, if I got that correctly, did his last rites)! What Rama's father, Dasaratha, could not get, was what the Avatar himself, Rama, did for Jatayu who chose to fight the evil Ravana for kidnapping mother Sita, even though he knew that he would most probably die in that unequal fight.

In my considered view, even after moving back to USA and facing some challenges, Terry is contributing to Prasanthi Nilayam mission, by fighting like Jatayu against those who want to harm Prasanthi Nilayam by poaching on the ashram and grabbing devotees and donors. Note that Terry related how the concerned lady tried to convert Terry herself!

As a Prasanthi Nilayam ashram and Puttaparthi loyalist, I am grateful to Terry for the work she has done, and continues to do. All the best, Terry and keep doing the good work if that's what your heart prompts you to do, of exposing the false and promoting the true. Sathyameva Jayate! Truth Alone Triumphs. Jai Sai Ram!

Chiran Basnet wrote (slightly edited): I am very grateful to Terry Reis Kennedy for the great work she has done day in day out on this issue. In fact one of the reason I came to social media writing was I became ashamed of my own silence as student of Swamy whereas handful of people like Terry mam and Ravi Iyer sir were relentlessly defending the gates of Puttaparthi despite thousands of personal abuse by then very active large mudenahalli fanatics all over social media. Today those Mudenahalli supporters r limited to their own caves as people like Terry continued to show them mirrors of Swamy's Words ,Wisdom and Truth which decimated their subtle phenomenon and helped many to stay away from such fatal pitfalls.

That made them call Terry mam even degrading words like --snip-- openly in Social media. N it was a time only a few were available to stand by her not the hundreds we see on a single post here today. The amount of hard work and toil that has been put by few here day in day out had and is having significant effect to Mudenahalli unhindered growth . I shiver to think how far Mudenahalli would have spread their tentacles if not for relentless proactive efforts by few dedicated people in their own small ways.

Today we have the luxury of showing more Words of Swamy in social media without a single abuse or even a comment by Mudenahalli well oiled social media department due to such relentless efforts of people like her. I was a Mudenahalli student so I know who heads that department there too.

What is more surprising is that some people here who can easily move away from Mudenahalli issue insist on staying on this post. And insist on educating us by highlighting how they have risen above the lower nature that still premate us.Insist on uplifting us to where they have elevated themselves to. Hope they moved on as easily as they moved away from Mudenahalli issue rather than be pulled down from their already achieved elevation

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Good to see Chiran Basnet speaking up here. He is a loyal supporter of Prasanthi Nilayam and Puttaparthi and has a lot of knowledge about what happened in the months and years after Mahasamadhi (split of MDH from PN).

Chiran Basnet wrote: Ravi S. Iyer sir thank u

Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): Thanks --name-snipped-- for sharing the background to Terry's post, including that you suggested she make it as the concerned lady had approached Terry earlier trying to convert her to MDH following.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I wish --name-snipped-- and --name-snipped-- all the best in finding a happier and more peaceful group/spiritual group.

My view of reading these exchanges is that --name-snipped--'s views which were critical of people writing against MDH stirred up some reactions.

MDH is a very, very sore point for many of us. I personally have been shouted at as if I did a crime in the vice-chancellor's office (which was a hallowed room then to people like me) by MDH supporter and traitor vice-chancellor of Sai university - Sashidhara Prasad in or around Jul 2011. At that time I did not know about Narasimhamurthy having got into (FALSE CLAIM) dream-instruction successor role of Sathya Sai with Sashidhara Prasad becoming a devoted follower of Narasimhamurthy (and going against Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust). I was humiliated that day by this traitor vice-chancellor in the vice-chancellor's office. I swallowed that humiliation out of respect for the chair of the VC (not knowing that he was or would be a traitor).

These and other experiences have left deep marks on my psyche. For --name-snipped-- and --name-snipped--, it is different. They may not have been humiliated and mentally harassed by MDH people. So naturally they are not so upset by them.

For people like me and Terry, it is different. We have been hit hard by them. So it is pretty emotional stuff. Not a detached peaceful discussion. B'cos that's the way MDH bullied and blackmailed their way to power over PN ashram system for some time. Yes, the blackmailed their way. Sashidhara Prasad was well connected to powerful political people in the country. He threatened Central Trust that he would complain about them if he was dismissed as vice-chancellor! And so this traitor VC remained in power over Sai university from Jul 2011 to Nov. 2014. For people like me who know all of this and have been through the fire of this betrayal, MDH is a super sensitive point. I think --name-snipped-- and --name-snipped-- have not had to go through any of this with MDH and so they now have a more tolerant view of them.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: And I don't think MDH people will be laughing at us at all. In fact, they desperately want people like us to stop exposing and opposing them. Perhaps MDH people will be glad with views here that they should not be criticized (which I disagree with).

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Perhaps the posts and comments we make against MDH get edgy at times. But we are human too. MDH people use Facebook fake IDs to write vicious 'fake news' attacks on us.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I don't know of one Parthi supporter in our Facebook group who uses fake Facebook IDs like MDH group, to attack MDH group people with vicious 'fake news' attacks.

MDH group is into lots of dangerous stuff and I think those of us who expose them are serving society by exposing them.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: From Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's discourse on 11-10-1986,

Here is an example from the Mahabharata: Considering that war should be a great universal calamity, Dharmaja (the eldest of the Pandavas) appealed to Krishna to go as an ambassador of peace to the Kauravas. Entering the audience hall of Duryodhana, Krishna described at length the disastrous consequences of war. The great Acharyas--Bhishma, Drona, Kripa and Aswathama--- who were present in the court, were intently listening to Krishna's words. But Krishna's appeal was of no use to them. Because of their long association with the wicked Kauravas, they became abettors in the crimes of Duryodhana and others.

Vidura, who was a witness to the evil that was being committed, resolved to oppose it. He pleaded with the Kauravas in many ways to listen to the wise words of Krishna. His appeal fell on deaf ears. Rather than stay amongst such evil-minded persons, Vidura felt that it was better to go on a pilgrimage, and left the country immediately.

Bhishma, Drona and others, having been beneficiaries of the sustenance provided by the wicked Kauravas, chose to be loyal to them and stayed on. All of them were great preceptors. They knew well the distinction between righteousness and evil. They had enquired into the nature of the eternal and the permanent. Of what avail was all that knowledge? When it came to practising what they knew, all their knowledge was of no use. In the final outcome, all of them met with the same end in the great war as the evil-minded Kauravas.

Krishna looked upon those who, even if they were good in themselves, did not oppose unrighteousness and injustice committed in their presence when they had the capacity to do so, as actual participants in the crimes. When evil and injustice and violence are being perpetrated, if individuals look on unconcerned, they must be regarded as accomplices in the crimes. In the end they also suffer as much as the criminals. By their passive association, they provide encouragement to the evildoers.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Some, including me, in Puttaparthi choose to oppose and expose Asathya and Adharma done by Muddenahalli group at the expense of Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system. Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's words above, in my considered view, show that we are doing the correct thing.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Mind you, we are not putting any pressure on those who choose to stay silent. But if they try to lecture us, based on Sathya Sai teachings, that we should stay silent and not expose Muddenahalli group, then I have many such extracts from Sathya Sai discourses about standing up for Sathya & Dharma. In particular, Sathya Sai has been extremely harsh on those who claim to be his mediums and communicators, and ****has instructed***** office bearers and devotees to be harshly dismissive of them (drive them out or something like that is the English translation of Sathya Sai words, in this context, if I recall correctly).

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: There is no doubt in my mind that the peace and love I myself enjoyed to a great extent when Sathya Sai was in physical form, in Prasanthi Nilayam ashram and in Puttaparthi town, is lesser now.

But Puttaparthi and Prasanthi Nilayam were under HIJACK and POACHING ATTACKS from Muddenahalli group from a few months after Mahasamadhi! Now the hijack has been reversed (with removal of 5 teachers from Higher Secondary School and one senior teacher from university in mid 2016 being the watershed moment) but the poaching is still ongoing though it is being done more secretively.

Peace cannot be at the cost of surrendering Prasanthi Nilayam system and Puttaparthi town to Muddenahalli group and the cheap imitator Madhusudan Rao Naidu! Sathya & Dharma values in Prasanthi Nilayam and Puttaparthi should be protected from Asathya-Adharma crooks of Muddenahalli group attempting to poach on Prasanthi Nilayam system.

But I can understand those who seek to spend time in an ashram town that is united in peace, love and joy NOT finding it currently in Puttaparthi, as Puttaparthi is even now under poaching attack from Muddenahalli! I can understand them wanting to move on to some other place where this splinter problem is not there. I wish them all the best to find a good peaceful, joyous, loving and united ashram town/system somewhere else.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: In my own case I am so so deeply grateful to my beloved and revered Gurudev Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba for all that he taught me and guided me through his discourses and his gestures & looks at me, that I will do my utmost to protect and preserve Bhagavan's legacy as well as Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system and Puttaparthi town, from the Asathya-Adharma crooks of Muddenahalli group. I don't care if I lose all my peace. I have to do my duty to my beloved Gurudev - peace or no peace. Jai Sai Ram!

--Name-snipped-- wrote: Thank you for defending our beloved Swami's legacy!

--Name-snipped-- wrote: beware of who you thank.

Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): --Name-snipped--, I try to do my bit. And I am open to fair criticism as I am aware that I could be wrong. The main guidelines for me are Swami teachings and instructions via his written works, discourses and how Swami Himself handled certain situations, especially when it came to claims of mediums and communicators of Swami. Swami was very, very harshly dismissive of them. Narasimhamurthy has chosen to ignore the ****direct**** instructions of Swami to him to never follow such claims.

If anybody feels that what I am doing is NOT protecting Swami's legacy but harming Swami's legacy, I welcome polite and fair criticism based on Swami teachings as a whole. Help Ever Hurt Never can be misunderstood to mean that one should never oppose Asathya-Adharma as it will hurt others. But when Swami's teachings as a whole are taken into account, it becomes clear that Swami taught us to oppose Asathya & Adharma to the extent we can (depending on our circumstances).

Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I cannot help but share what I read about what happened after Jesus was crucified in Jerusalem. It was a period of great turmoil for the followers of Jesus. They were persecuted in Jerusalem itself! Some could not handle all that persecution and chose to move to Damascus. Paul, who at that time was a persecutor of these Christians (after Jesus crucifixion), decided to go to Damascus and persecute them there and try to finish off the Christian faith! It was then, on the road to Damascus, that he had a miraculous experience and got converted to becoming a follower of Jesus.

Jesus was said to have been crucified around 30-33 AD. Jerusalem was razed to the ground by the Romans around 40 years later - in 70 AD (if I recall correctly).

What was the fate of the great apostles of Jesus? Peter was martyred in Rome!

So what the history of religion, in this case, Christian religion, teaches us is that the period following the physical passing away of the spiritual master/religion founder, is a period of turmoil. Such is life!

As compared to what happened to followers of Jesus, the Puttaparthi- Muddenahalli fight is a storm in a teacup! It would be great if there was no split. But then we cannot control all of that. We have to react to threats to dilute and distort and hijack the memories and legacy of our beloved spiritual master.

--Name-snipped-- wrote: Truth is god and god is truth. Truth has prevailed. Wonderful writings Ravi Sir. Know that I have learned immensely from your writings. SAI Ram

Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): --Name-snipped-- Glad to know that some of my writings helped you. Jai Sai Ram!

Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): For the purpose of having a fair discussion, I have to say that my initial comment on this post was NOT on the above comment of --name-snipped--. I think there were follow on comments perhaps under --name-snipped--'s comment (which now seems to have been deleted and so the follow on comments are also not available for viewing), where Eve was critical of Terry for Terry's posts which were critical of MDH. As I support Terry's work in exposing MDH, I wrote in support of Terry.

I don't think I crossed the line of polite conversation in my comments. If somebody feels that I did so, I would be glad to review those comment(s) and make corrections and even apologize if I crossed the line of polite conversation.