Sunday, October 16, 2016

Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba typically did not approve of grown women dancing in front of him

Last updated on 18th Oct. 2016

Given below is a comment exchange from Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10211000882116813:

[IMPORTANT CLARIFICATION: The attached pic shows an invitation card to an event in Muddenhalli on Oct. 11th 2016 (5 days ago). The chief guest mentioned, Hon'ble Health and Family Welfare minister of Karnataka, Shri Ramesh Kumar, DID NOT ATTEND the function. So readers should NOT MISUNDERSTAND the pic of the invitation card shown in this post as an indication of Shri Ramesh Kumar having attended the event. In fact, we are told by his daughter, Smt. Shubha Ramesh Kumar, (see comments on my associated Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1804579643091938) that Shri Ramesh Kumar DID NOT ATTEND the event but was in Prasanthi Nilayam/Puttaparthi that whole day! END-IMPORTANT-CLARIFICATION]

Shubha Ramesh Kumar wrote (Shubha was OK with sharing on my post; slightly edited):
So this gentleman was supposedly invited for the Vijaya dashami celebration at Mdh [Ravi: Please see pic below]. He choose to spend the day in puttaparthy is a different story, what I am more offended by is they had some grown woman scheduled to dance. I don't remember Swami ever doing that.


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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Shubha Ramesh Kumar, I think Dana Gillespie swaying while singing in front of Bhagavan was more of an exception than the rule. Though I would not sit through all cultural programs in Prasanthi Nilayam, the impression I had was that Swami typically would not approve of programs having grown women dancing in front of him.
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Clive Raj Valydon wrote (Clive was OK with sharing his comments on this post; slightly edited):
Because of his students .. Swami was very careful what he exposed them to.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Clive Raj Valydon, very well said.
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I had put up the above contents as a separate Facebook post here: https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1804579643091938. Given below are some comment exchanges from it:

Vr Ganti wrote (edited): Sai Ram Shubha Garu - I see.that these Mhalli guys print the names of Cheif Guest without his concurrence is it. That is too bad on thier part. I have a few friends in Mhalli Camp and I will enquire or may be I will ask them to apologize appropriately, if you don't mind.

I am really unable to understand why did Ravi Iyer Garu, put up that invitation card on his wall. Ravi Garu is very careful and will never make any unnecessary comment and also he will never hurt others. Why did he do this? There must be a good reason for him to do what he did? I hope he will not mind clarifying if not publicly, at least privately.
--snip--
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Shubha Ramesh Kumar wrote (edited):
In defense of Ravi Ravi S. Iyer he asked my permission and then put it up. Also he put it up because of the discussion which was on going in another thread about code of conduct and why someone grown up was dancing in front of swami. If that was ok? It had nothing to do about the Chief guest. --snip--
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Vr Ganti sir, hope sister Shubha Ramesh Kumar's response answers the question you directed at me.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
I would like to state that the discussion about grown up women dancing, was dancing in front of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's physical form and whether that would meet his approval.

It was NOT about grown up women dancing per se. I do watch dances of grown up women, either traditional Hindu dances which typically depict events in Hindu scripture (which is what perhaps the dance progam in Muddenahalli would have been about), as well as other dances too :-) . So I and I think most of the others commenting on this post are not saying that grown up women should not dance anywhere!!! It is just that in our view, grown up women dancing for a Sathya Sai devotional event was NOT something that typically happened in front of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's physical form.
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User Mailsai Box wrote:
Ravi sir.. You have become a feast for the same person who never agrees with anyone who speaks truth once again as usual I guess.. Have a nice time then.. Sairam.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Mailsai Box, I don't agree with you. It is difficult to chat with an anonymous person as anonymous persons are not accountable for their comments. But anyway ... Mr. Vr Ganti raised questions which both Shubha Ramesh Kumar and I have answered. That clarifies the situation. It is Mr. Vr Ganti who had the ***GUTS*** and perseverance to expose the HIJACK of SSSIHL (Sai university) from Jul. 2011 to Nov. 2014 by Sashidhara Prasad and Narasimhamurthy, along with some QUISLINGS of the Sai university who forced the ONLY Sai university HERO who FOUGHT the HIJACK then, Prof. Anilkumar Kamaraju, to resign from the Sai university (in end 2011 or in 2012). It was an act of great treachery by these QUISLINGS in the Sai university who are still holding important positions of power in the Sai university and PN ashram but will surely face the bad karmic effects of the Teacher-Droham Paapam and the TREACHERY they have done. I will never forget Vr Ganti sir's great SATHYA & DHARMA efforts sometime in 2015 continuing on in 2016, to EXPOSE this very TRAGIC Sai university HIJACK from Jul 2011 to Nov. 2014 by MDH group which, in my considered opinion, played a vital role in enabling Muddenahalli group to grow so much.
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Mailsai Box wrote:
Good.. Then Why to deny when you're happy with it .. Thanks for taking trouble to reply.. Sairam
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Why to deny what???
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Mailsai Box wrote:
Whatever you think or whatever you say.. G'day.. Sairam.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Ok (noted your response as an indication of wanting to end the conversation). Mailsai Box. Sairam!
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Mailsai Box wrote:
Thanks.. Sorry to say but it's true that You try to be tooo good to everyone.. That's the problem.. That's why I said why to deny as I didn't want to hurt your feelings.. Hope it is settled now.. let me end it here with this.. Sairam.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Oh! Mailsai Box, I try to do my duty to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba in gratitude for all the spiritual guidance he has given me. I go by my inner conscience and do what I consider is the right thing to do and what I think Bhagavan will approve of. That is what matters to me. Not whether I am trying to be tooo good to everyone. Actually, I have been quite harshly critical of some people - I don't want to name them. They surely will not say that I am being good to them. BTW I have been very critical PUBLICLY of Mr. Vr Ganti too at times when I felt it appropriate. And Mr. Vr Ganti has been critical of me at times. So we are able to tolerate each other's criticisms. And that is quite normal for useful discussions on contentious topics.
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Mailsai Box wrote:
Sairam Sir.. Can I make a request for the list of entire staff of administrative section and also teaching & non teaching in your next post to collect some important information from the dept. of revenue in parthi if possible .. Pls.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Oh No! That is not something that I can provide. Further, what I would simply like to be shared with Sathya Sai fraternity is the reality of what happened in SSSIHL in the MDH HIJACK period from Jul 2011 to Nov. 2014. Once that truth is known, then a proper re-orientation of SSSIHL can be done. So far, that truth has been pushed under the carpet and SSSIHL is lagging behind very badly in terms of the spiritual vision of Bhagavan. It comes across more as a regular deemed university with some cultural programs rather than the DIVINE Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara university that Bhagavan had envisioned. ... So my interest in SSSIHL is limited to that. Beyond that I want to stay away from SSSIHL. Thanks. Jai Sairam!
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Mailsai Box wrote:
No problem.. made all arrangements to get the list through legal process to save the same Sathya Sai fraternity as you mentioned.. Swamy shows many ways to solve this too.. and they can't be considered above law too to exclude those whoever are mingled in this conspiracy just because they are working there .. So no problem at all..
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Mailsai Box wrote:
Thank you.. Sairam.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Thank you Mailsai Box for your efforts to restore Sathya & Dharma in the Sai university (SSSIHL). Such restoration of Sathya & Dharma in the Sai university efforts (Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara is the motto given to the university by revered founder-chancellor Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba), in my considered view, can be done ONLY AFTER the Asathya and Adharma that happened in the top echelons of Sai university from Jul. 2011 to Nov. 2014 under the TRAITOR vice-chancellor Sashidhara Prasad and his mentor former warden, B.N. Narasimhamurthy, is fully shared with Sathya Sai fraternity.

We should not look for revenge against those (QUISLINGS) that CONSPIRED with TRAITOR Sashidhara Prasad in the Sai university top echelons then. But we cannot act as if nothing happened!!! Those who did the Teacher-Droham paapam actions (Harmful and sinful actions against teacher) in the top Sai university echelons to FORCE OUT Prof. Anilkumar Kamaraju, the ONLY HERO of SSSIHL fighting against the TRAITORS Sashidara Prasad and Narasimhamurthy, MUST CONFESS PUBLICLY for the Asathya and Adharma actions they did perhaps under the orders of Sashidhara Prasad and Narasimhamurthy, and seek forgiveness from the Sathya Sai fraternity and from Bhagavan for the PAAPAM (SINS) they committed against the Sai university, founded by Shiva-Shakti Swarupa, Kali Yuga Avatar, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, to re-inforce Sathya, Dharma, Shanti and Prema in the world.

Public confession by those in power in the Sai university top echelons (Registrar, Controller of Examinations, Directors of campuses, Hostel wardens, Heads of depts.) about the Asathya and Adharma that happened in SSSIHL from Jul 2011 to Nov. 2014, will go a long way to healing the Sai university and bringing it back on the path of Sathya and Dharma, in my view.

As a contribution from me towards EXPOSURE of Asathya & Adharma in the Sai university under former vice-chancellor and Teacher-Drohi Sashidhara Prasad, former HOD of my department then, Teacher-Drohi Chandrasekaran, then and current registrar, Teacher-Drohi Naren Ramji, and then Director of Prasanthi Nilayam campus Teacher-Drohi Sudhir Bhaskar, I have put up a detailed blog post, My May 2012 service record & record tampering related correspondence with Sai university (SSSIHL) administrators, http://ravisiyer.blogspot.in/2015/11/my-may-2012-service-record-record.html, first posted on Nov. 13th 2015 and last updated on 2nd Sept. 2016.

Jai Sairam! Satyannaasti Paro Dharmaha!
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Mailsai Box wrote:
No question of revenge arises here as we are not their enemies.. But no wonder if they consider us as their enemies just because we are questioning them.. I know who are really living there for Swamy and who are not.. That is what I am going to bring out the reality behind their answer Sairam for every mischief.. Really one must appreciate how nicely they get United and start defending themselves whenever they are questioned by the authorities of SSSCT.. even their wives & relatives who are placed beautifully in security section.. they carry mobiles.. Snacks.. Whatever they feel like.. No checking, no such restrictions are made for them.. Only they are empowered to get the first chance to go right in front of Swamy (as I never see him in Samadhi form I don't intend to mention it.. Sorry) and make prasnam..
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Noted your responses Mailsai Box. Thanks. All the best for your efforts. I pray to Bhagavan to shower His Grace on you for these efforts to reinforce Sathya & Dharma in the Sai university and in Prasanthi Nilayam at large. Jai Sairam!
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Terry Reis Kennedy put up a Facebook post, DANCING FOR GOD, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10211034296512152, in response to matter covered partially in this post.

She wrote in the post, 'I have a framed photo of myself with 15 other foreign ladies and Swami that was taken after a very long performance by foreign women, mostly Germans. It was for Swami's First Ladies Day in 1995 and it was in the Purnachandra Hall. In the evening after Bhajans Swami Himself announced the evening program and He invited the devotees in the mandir to come to the dance saying, "These lady dancers were Gopikas in their past lives..."'. She also talked about "dancing seva" she had done at 'hospitals, old-age homes, homes for the disabled, and places called "day care centers" for the handicapped and enfeebled', two years prior to she moved to Puttaparthi on a permanant basis. She felt that this dancing seva was validated by Bhagavan by allowing her, a "stand-in" dancer, to replace a dancer who had twisted her ankle, to perform in the dance event before Bhagavan.

I (Ravi) commented on the above post as follows:
Terry Reis Kennedy, Interesting experience you had with Swami. I did not know of this.

As I understand it, what sister Shubha Ramesh Kumar and I were saying is that we did not know of Swami in physical form approving of grown women dancing in front of him. What you have shared is something I did not know and perhaps Shubha also did not know.

However, I have to say that in my regular stay in Puttaparthi since Oct. 2002 with regular visits to Sai Kulwanth Hall for Swami darshan (though I would not sit through all the programs), I do not recall seeing any program having grown women dancing in front of Swami (physical form). Terry, do you recall any such dance program with grown women done in front of Swami from Oct. 2002 onwards?

Perhaps Swami decided to stop encouraging such dance programs done publicly in front of his physical form, as the one you mentioned (in 1995), in later years.

Now, mind you, I am NOT saying that Swami would disapprove of all dance programs everywhere!!! I think Swami had to be concerned about a lot of factors when it came to what programs were held in His physical form presence. So even if he did not encourage grown up women dancing in front of his physical form in later years (after Oct. 2002 as per my experience and to the best of my knowledge), he may have been very much for grown up women who are interested in dancing, expressing artistically, their love & devotion to God through dances dedicated to God, in other locations where He surely would be present in formless aspect.

So it is great to know that you served Swami through dance (dancing Seva). Thanks for sharing it with us.
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Terry Reis Kennedy responded to above comment (partial extract of comment), "Actually, your post made me realize I had NOT seen a female adult dance performance before our Ladies Day Dance, or after it. It makes my experience even more special and for the other women too."

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