Friday, August 28, 2015

Some Facebook comments from "SUKSHMA BABA - DID NOT RESPOND - BECAUSE HE IS NOT REAL", VR Ganti's FB post

Some Facebook comments from "SUKSHMA BABA - DID NOT RESPOND - BECAUSE HE IS NOT REAL", https://www.facebook.com/notes/vr-ganti/sukshma-baba-did-not-respond-because-he-is-not-real/10205009062290912, dated Aug. 24th 2015 by Mr. V.R. Ganti.

Narender Thangavelu wrote: Beware that things you post on internet are written in history forever. What you post on your Timeline is completely your choice but if the starting point is not a personal but a socially sensitive matter (like MDH issue in this case), you must post only contents that are backed by evidence or a personal opinion open to criticism because it is a collective responsibility to maintain the harmony of the environment. That being said, remember that on the internet nobody wins but everyone loses. For every sane argument you encounter ten insane ones. It will not help anybody except those who are keen to spread more confusion. Regarding the MDH issue and general behavior of both supporters and opponents :

1. Don't take advantage of the situation and hand out retributions for personal differences.
2. Reference to a person's physical appearance is unnecessary.
3. People who claim to be neutral observers must refrain from making comments that are supportive of one side only. You don't do, read the definition of 'neutral' and then get back.
4. The whole subject of this issue is the MDH's top panel which can be slimmed down to Madhusudan and BNNM. If you have something to say for (ex. they are not using Swami's name to collect funds) or against them (ex. they are indeed collecting money in Swami's name), have enough evidence to backup your claims or just mention that it is claimed so.
5. Don't say, 'It's all cosmic drama!' or 'Wait and watch!' when you are openly supporting or opposing one idea on a common forum and are requested by the other to answer questions based on what your said. You will lower the perceived IQ of your whole group. Just say you don't know and in the best interest of all, get back with the answer.
6. We are all brand ambassadors of Sai whether or not you are an office bearer. Keep that in mind.
7. The official Sai organization had rejected the idea of light body. You are free to believe or even talk about it to fellow members but if you are an office bearer instated by the official chain of command, then you either resign and propagate or continue and abandon the idea. This is not in line with just ethics but directly the rules as laid down by the organization.
8. Last but not the least, don't become dummies and be silent, don't be decoys and lure the innocents, don't turn into puppets and dance to the tune of schemers. Answer the voice of conscience alone and argue with context. Don't talk absurd things and then preach love and harmony when it backfires.

You don't have to be a Sai devotee to agree with most of what I said. Posting and commenting without hatred doesn't require a religious or spiritual foundation. It's pure common sense.
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: First you prove that Swami exists there in the subtle body and then I will prove whether it is a scam or not. Don't attribute statements I didn't make to me just the way your MDH group is attributing unspoken statements of Swami to Him.

For argument's sake, MDH doesn't collect money in the name of Swami. Answer me this before we can take it to next level.

Q1. Swami's 89th birthday celebrations at MDH. It is approximately 10 minutes. From 6:00 to 7:32 we see Madhusudan talking with BNNM translating it. Madhusudan does NOT wait for light body or any body (other than BNNM) to talk before he speaks. That means Swami is in either Madhusudan or BNNM, which by definition, translates one of them into a 'medium' - something Swami was vehemently advising against all His earthly sojourn.

VIDEO LINK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chzz8aPu89k

Q2. In all videos where Madhusudan opens the car for the 'subtle body' to come out. At that point he bends down because the subtle body is sitting inside. After the subtle body comes out he walks behind but at that time He keeps looking at the ground level. Again, when being seated in a chair next to it he looks at eye level. What exactly is the height of the subtle body?
VIDEO LINK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KePS-x6FbX4

Q3. Subtle body needs a car to travel inland but not a flight for overseas trips?

Answer these questions and don't you quote references from so-called subtle body's discourses because there is no proof that it is the subtle body of Swami YET. So don't start, 'I am creating this drama of going in a car blah blah blah...' Give a proper reference from Sathya Sai Baba.

Don't comment on my wisdom. You are not experiencing my journey. All my posts are directed at people to think for themselves and reminding them to rely on what Swami told about Himself.

Until proven, Sukshma Baba is only Fakeshma Baba.

Goodluck!
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: Bro, you are evading again. My question was why does He travel in a car but not in a flight for overseas trips. Why does Madhusudan not waiting for the light body to talk? If you don't know just admit it instead of talking about Prahlad. In the end, God ripped the guy who tried to take over God's role in the universe. So just answer my question directly.
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Pardha Saradhi Uppala wrote: Narender Thangavelu, you will NEVER get the answers for these questions. The reason being the people who believe in MDH are not deceiving just us, but first of all, they are deceiving themselves. They are emotionally dependent on the farce of this Subtle Body, and hence they have closed their eyes to it and ears to every single teaching of Swami Madhu and BNNM have totally negated. Swami has clearly said and we have the audio as well, "Immediately remove anyone from official Organization if they have association with other Organizations". Mr. BNNM has trespassed this command by kickstarting another Trust while still being part of the Trust. What do you call the people who support such acts? I have no words.
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: Bro no matter how hard you try. You cannot give answers to my questions especially why He was speaking without waiting for the light body to talk. It is impossible and we have video proof. So learn to live with it. The appropriate thing to do is not to quote from Gita or Ramayana or any text. Ask the one who is there trying to imitate God. Ask the leaders there.
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Pardha Saradhi Uppala wrote: [Name-snipped], what would Bhagavan teach? He taught very clearly that He never talks through mediums. People hanker after them. Bhagavan clearly said, people who talk about money in the organization are cheats. And people support those who make presentations of projects and solicit funds. And last not but least, Bhagavan's Voice is available, where He said, "Remove people from organization if they have connection with other organizations" and people run behind those who started new Trusts while still being part of the official Trust. What would Bhagavan teach anymore to these people?
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: We all know what Sathya Sai Baba, Rama, Krishna etc. told and warned against so cut it out and tell me why Madhusudan did not wait for the light body to speak first and kept on talking with BNNM translating it during the 89th Birthday celebrations. Do you know or not?
One very simple question that demands straight answer.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: They have NO answer and refuse to accept the TRUTH. Classic sign of fanaticism, IMHO.
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: One good thing is happening though. These pro-MDH people couldn't find any of Swami's relevant statements to support their attachment to Madhusudan so they end up quoting humongous other statements of Baba that doesn't answer our questions, and end up creating an online version of Sathya Sai Speaks on the internet.
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: 'What is the use of the Avathar coming to earth and talking to you if don't listen to his words' but run behind an imposter instead?
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: Thank you 'neutral observer'! The court case is not our last salvation but the beginning of MDH medium group's obliteration. If we are Prashanthi frogs, remember it is the same well in which frogs of your new trust were nurtured, raised, and graduated. Those who graduate from Prashanthi are not necessarily true to Swami as it can be seen now. Beware that many of your supporters repeatedly use words like 'mafia', 'hate mob', 'fools', 'morons' exactly when cornered by reasonable questions backed by evidence. Just admit that you don't know. You can form a new trust but cannot escape the consequences of (alleged by Mr. Naganand) illegally amending a deed, if proved. Again, if it was (alleged by Mr. Naganand) indeed illegally amended, old habits die hard so your new trust will break further into more divisions by differences between its members. That's the way things work in nature.

With all due consideration, I am clear in that I totally respect your devotion. Both pro and anti-MDH have their own beliefs and I am sure the principles taught by institutions that run under the purviews of both trusts are based on Human Values so let us refrain from calling names at each other.

You must have noted how despite unsupportive of MDH, Ravi S. Iyer interfered and strictly demanded a few anti-MDH people to edit and refrain from using unparliamentary language in their posts and comments, and I have been observing a code of conduct in my own statements as well even if I argue strongly. This is not happening in your case. There are people who give 'likes' to your posts and comments but don't advise you or admonish you when you use language that is incorrect in the Sai fraternity. In fact, they come to your aid just because they also want to defend MDH. Let the means, manner, method, and ends be tough but not filthy. Take a moment to reflect on this truth and be fair in your arguments and backups.
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Narender Thangavelu wrote: [Name-snipped] , No Ravi S. Iyer is not my guru and I don't even know his history. He maintains some professionalism in these issues which I don't find with everyone in BOTH pro and anti-MDH groups so gave him as an example.

My guru is Sathya Sai Baba and nobody else takes that position in my heart. Not translators, nor office bearers, nor students (current or former), nor members, nor coordinators, but the one and only one who comes from time to time to restore Dharma and eradicate Adharma. Everyone else, no matter how good or impressive they are in their activities, have my appreciation and attention exclusively for the good work they do, but they cannot become Him.

Your statement:
'You are the one who is avoiding answers by rephrasing you questions over and over again. It is not my job to convince you.'

...is a blatant lie because I didn't and don't rephrase my questions, rather you keep evading them. You don't have to convince me. You just have to answer me. You can't. You won't. You never will. Period.

I have made my points very clearly and fairly, and don't have to elaborate more. Anyone who still comments that I am unfair in my approach is probably having an intellectual malfunction so I just would refrain from getting mine drained by such people by further arguments.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I have blocked [Name-snipped] (and a few others) so I (thankfully) don't get to see their comments. It seems that [Name-snipped] has referred to me sarcastically, of course, as Guru of Narender Thangavelu, which Narender has rightfully rejected outright as we are only recent Facebook friends and have not even met each other. [Name-snipped] does have this terrible habit of turning nasty when his arguments are logically refuted. That is why I blocked him on Facebook.

I am just a spiritual aspirant who received a lot of spiritual guidance both indirectly through Bhagavan's writings, discourses and the Sai orgn. that he created and nurtured, as well as DIRECTLY from his physical form through discourse segments aimed at me in particular and his facial expressions and body gestures to me (e.g. an Abhaya Hastha to convey satisfaction with my spiritual efforts/understanding, looking at me and then pointedly turning away to unmistakably convey his unhappiness with my spiritual efforts/understanding and/or actions). Out of my deep gratitude to Bhagavan, I WILL NOT be a SILENT SPECTATOR to Narasimhamurthy and Madhusudhan Naidu, along with their social media supporters & promoters like [Name-snipped], deluding innocent Sai devotees with their outlandish and FALSE CLAIM of so called subtle body of Bhagavan speaking through so called communicator Madhusudhan Naidu.

What Bhagavan taught was that the ultimate Guru lies in the depths of our own being. If we turn within, stilling the waves of desire and emotions that cloud our mind, God the ultimate Guru will express Himself to us. I salute the Kali Yuga Avatar, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, who said in a discourse in Sai Kulwant Hall which I had the privilege to hear directly with my own ears sitting in Sai Kulwant Hall, that as we all are God, nobody should take Padanamaskar of Him. Why should God take Padanamaskar of God was his argument. Oh! Where will we find such a spiritual master! What an awesome treasure we had when God took Avatar as Guru Sathya Sai to teach us that we are all God but have deluded ourselves to think that we are mere men/women!
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Pardha Saradhi Uppala wrote: Narender Thangavelu, Vr Ganti, Ravi S. Iyer, There is absolutely no point in asking these questions. These questions were asked a million times, and from what I heard, you can simply write a computer program to generate a typical MDH answer. It is similar to how Rahul Gandhi answers every question posed to him as a permutation of the same words. There is a standard set of phrases by the MDH victims. Anything you ask the answer will be a combination of one of these statements.
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Pardha Saradhi Uppala wrote: 1. Why does Muddenhalli Madhu claim only he sees Swami?
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-A: You and I also can see Swami if we have a pure soul.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-B: Swami’s ways are inexplicable. How dare you question Swami’s ways?
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-C: Madhu is not a medium. He is like the guy who introduced you to Swami
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-D: Madhu is a humble soul. He does not take Pawanamaskars. He walks humbly behind Swami
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-E: Swami said…., “ “…. (quotes a statement from one of the subtle body talks by Muddenahalli Madhu
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-F: Swami is not the property of Central Trust

2. While Swami explicitly said, anyone who mentions money during organizational meetings and asks for money in the name of Swami is a cheat, why do the MDH batch say, “Swami chose you to sponsor XYZ project” and why do they make project presentations and solicit funds, for instance during the USA trip or the lady quoted in the RadioSai program about Muddenahalli mayhem?

MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-F: All is Love. Love is all. Service is done in silence.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-G: I have been to a meeting. I never saw them asking for money. There is no proof (They do not mention about the specific instances you quoted where they asked for money)
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-H: You keep all your money and enjoy it. What is your problem when someone else is donating money out of love?

3. When Swami clearly said (audio available), that anyone who is related to other organisations, while being in Sathya Sai Organization must be immediately removed, why did these people start a new Trust while being part of the current Trust?
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-I: Swami does not belong to one Trust. Swami is universal.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-J: Let the truth come out. Case is in court. Wait until truth comes out.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-K: You are a fool asking irrelevant questions without doing actual service.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-L: You keep your faith to yourself. Let us keep our faith to ourselves.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-M: When Swami soon shows the real truth of subtle form, then what a shame will be on you!
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-N: You are mongering hatred. Spreading lies. Mind your business.
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-O: Muddenahalli people are pure souls like all devotees of Swami without any trace of selfishness.

4. Muddenahalli Madhu says, if one is pure, Swami will appear to him too. Does it mean everyone who is currently not seeing Swami is impure?
MDH-victim’s-brainwashed-Answer-……: Pick any of the above answers above. Your choice. Infact you can mix and match any question above with any answer above. You can become a true Muddenahalli Madhu devotee if you can mug up just the above statements.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Pardha Saradhi Uppala: I think Narender Thangavelu is going through what seems to have become a "rite of passage" in Facebook conversation on so called MDH subtle body. I went through that rite of passage a few months ago when I joined in this Facebook conversation. MDH supporters will try to fatigue the person who argues logically against MDH belief.

Tomorrow this rite of passage would be gone through by somebody else! I guess we have to accept it as inescapable for those who want to contribute to this conversation. Perhaps if we create a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) type of document on these conversations, it may become an easier rite of passage for future entrants into this conversation.
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[I thank Narender Thangavelu and Pardha Saradhi Uppala for the comments which I have shared, with their approval in some form, on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]

2 comments:

  1. I am confused as why people can't make some reasons:
    - Does subtle body needs a medium to travel?
    - why can't subtle body just appear, instead of the gang flying and wasting money? Swami never wasted money for luxury, these people make devotees but new home and car as subtle body is coming. This is ridiculous and pains as swami was such a pure and did not waste others money or take money.
    - Today in India Engineering colleges are many and value is gone... Swami took pain to create great colleges and 2 hospitals so this will inspire people to server and not to start many in each city.
    - Dreams are only for individual and not to make other believe and create a CULT.
    sairam.. sad truth but i do NOT blame central trust as they can't just waste time and energy on noise. They need to focus on mission in Hand.

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    Replies
    1. Very well said, LoveAllServeAll. I agree. Jai Sairam!

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