Friday, August 28, 2015

Why I don't have to go to Muddenahalli to conclude that the claim of so called subtle body & so called communicator is FALSE

Last updated on 28th August 2015

[Concluding paragraph: I challenge Madhusudhan Naidu to give EXTEMPORE (as against prepared/mugged) discourses on Vedas, Vedanta, Puranas and itihasas. I further challenge him to explore matters on these scriptural texts in more detail than what Bhagavan did (in his physical form). If he cannot rise up to these challenges then Madhusudhan Naidu should better STOP claiming to be a communicator and give his darshan, interviews and discourses under his own name or another Baba name like what Kurnool Bala Sai Baba or Nepal's Sanjay Sai Baba have done, instead of being an IMPOSTER sullying the HOLY NAME of Kali Yuga Avatar Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba of PUTTAPARTHI.]

Slightly more than a week back I received an invite from a person on Facebook, which I accepted even though the person did not seem to have a profile with details associated a with real person, as she had a common FB friend (who I later found out did not really know who she was). She later sent me a chat request which prompted this post.

She started the chat in a very polite way asking if I would clarify her doubts and that she would be grateful if I did so. On me responding positively she asked whether I have seen Muddenahalli and the "scam" going on there. Her words, and not my words, mind you.

I responded: Well, I have studied it in depth from their videos and discourse text.

She zeroed in by repeating the question whether I have seen it!

I responded: I have also put up blog post on why I need not go there. I can point you to that blog post if you are interested.

She was ready to look at the blog posts:

I responded:
1) Medium(s) who tell you about some private incident/interaction between you and Sathya Sai Baba - What will you do? http://ravisiyer.blogspot.in/2015/03/mediums-who-tell-you-some-private.html

2) The 'come and experience' Muddenahalli line of argument; Need for unconvinced devotees to write about their experiences http://ravisiyer.blogspot.in/2015/05/the-come-and-experience-muddenahalli.html

She then wrote that she read the posts and had some questions. She wrote that I say that Muddenahalli people who are long time Baba devotees are cheating and that people in Parthi are humbly doing Baba work, right?

Now I had written nothing of that sort in the above blog posts. I wonder whether she really read them. Anyway I was polite, and I responded:
Not exactly. My specific stand is as follows:
1) Madhusudhan Naidu's claim of being so called chosen communicator of Sathya Sai Baba whom only he can see and interact with is completely at odds with what Sathya Sai Baba has said. So in short, I view that as a FALSE CLAIM.
2) About Parthi orgn.: It may have its flaws and I have actually parted ways with the Sai university due to problems I faced.
3) I do not have any objection to Muddenahalli group's service activities or their donations.
My objection is the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudhan Naidu.

She then wrote that I am part of the big people sitting in Puttaparthi who are not giving up their ego and reaching out to Muddenahalli to clear the matter. And she talked about an ego war.

I responded: Well, what do you mean, go to Muddenahalli? You want all of us to accept Madhusudhan Naidu as chosen communicator of Baba only because he may have some mind and memory reading ability? You want us to go against what Sathya Sai Baba taught us in his public discourses?

She wrote that we need not accept but we should go there, meet the persons concerned, cross check with cameras and bring out the truth.

I responded: Ah! Being an investigative reporter. [I did not follow up this line of discussion as I was least interested in playing such a role.]

She then wrote that I am sitting somewhere else and arriving at a conclusion about what is happening in Muddenahalli based on listening to others' accounts.

I responded: How do you think me going to Muddenahalli will help? What can Madhu Naidu tell me? He can tell me about my personal interactions wtih Swami perhaps. So should I then believe he is Swami?

She wrote that if Madhusudhan Naidu can tell me what only Baba (Swami) and I know. Then??? [Ravi: Seeming to imply that then I should accept that Madhusudhan Naidu is a communicator of Baba!]

I responded: EXACTLY. This is THE BIG TRAP. Do you know that Radhe Maa of Mumbai who is in the news nowadays is also reputed to have ability to know hidden info. about people? That seems to be a siddhi that some people acquire.

She was still not convinced and the chat meandered onto other topics with me finally saying Goodbye.

At the time I was having the above-mentioned chat I could not locate one blog post where I had addressed a similar question from somebody else. Here's the blog post, Comment exchanges on Shri Indulal Shah sir's letter supportive of Muddenahalli organization, http://ravisiyer.blogspot.in/2015/05/comment-exchanges-on-shri-indulal-shah.html, with the relevant extracts given below (MDH is short form for Muddenahalli, brother M is Madhusudhan Naidu):

Thanks brother Gautham Narendran for your response. You wrote, "Regarding doubts and confusion, simple solution for the entire devotee community is to go and experience it for ourselves, instead of complaining again and again about the apparent confusion. Don't you feel that's a wiser option? I feel that's the mistake all are committing here. Simply sit at home and complain about confusion, instead of packing their luggage and take a short trip to MDH for a first hand experience."

In our previous Facebook post exchanges I did not want to broach this matter but as you have explicitly raised it in response to my explicit request to Shri Indulal Shah sir about the matter, I think I must respond.

What can me going to MDH do? At the most it can convey that brother M either by himself or through claimed subtle body of Bhagavan, can read my mind and its memories. Such capability is not uncommon in this great and holy land of Bharat which has had many Siddha Purushas in the past & present and will continue to do so in the future.

More on it is given in this extract from my blog post, http://ravisiyer.blogspot.in/2015/03/mediums-who-tell-you-some-private.html (what I have said below for medium(s) applies to communicator(s) too):

[Ravi: This is one of the blog posts referred earlier in this post. I have omitted that blog post extract]
...

Therefore, in my considered opinion, the line of 'come and experience' to validate claims of communicator brother M, is not good enough in this vital matter for the Sathya Sai mission. A public and thorough debate on the matter, with leaders like Shri Indulal Shah sir, Mr. Issac Tigrett sir and Shri B.N. Narasimhamurthy sir, where they transparently and honestly share their experiences with communicator brother M, is what is needed. I started having some level of belief in physical form Swami's divine powers by experiences written by, what I considered to be reliable and honest accounts from people of standing, like Prof. Kasturi, Dr. John Hislop, Mr. Howard Murphet and even the parapsychologist investigator from the university of Iceland, Prof. Erlendur Haraldsson. I have great respect for leaders like Shri Indulal Shah sir, Shri B.N. Narasimhamurthy sir and Mr. Isaac Tigrett sir, and would treat detailed accounts by them of their experiences with communicator brother M's communications, with a lot of seriousness. But, as far as I know, we do not have such information available publicly.

Jai Sairam!

--- end blog post extract ---

[Note that Sathya Sai Uvacha a publication by MDH group does have very limited experience accounts of so called subtle body by some, perhaps all, of the gentlemen I mentioned above. That is nowhere near the accounts provided in Sathyam Shivam Sundaram (Shri Kasturi) or Man of Miracles (Howard Murphet) or Prof. Erlendur Haraldsson's book on Swami miracles.]

Over four years have passed since Bhagavan's Mahasamadhi and over a year has passed since Madhusudhan Naidu openly started giving his discourses with the discourse text and videos available on the Internet. However, Madhusudhan Naidu has failed to answer searching questions about his claims from various people, including the questions raised above (including the blog posts mentioned above). Recently he was challenged to come to Puttaparthi and prove his claims of being a communicator of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, which he has not responded to.

The test of somebody claiming to be an Avatar come as Guru cannot be a test of merely examining memory and mind reading powers or even some materialization siddhis. The test of an Avatar come as Guru is his mastery of holy scripture like the Vedas, the Upanishads and the Bhagavad Geeta, as well as the itihasas having the accounts of previous avatars like Ramayana, Bhagavat Purana and Mahabharata. Madhusudhan Naidu's 'discourses' do not come anywhere close to the mastery that Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba demonstrated on the holy scripture mentioned earlier. Further, Madhusudhan Naidu makes blunders like saying that Buddha roamed all over the world. Buddha never did that as at that time, travel was very tough. Buddha is said to have lived largely in the Indian subcontinent.

Madhusudhan Naidu, in another 'discourse' said something on the lines: when I came as Rama, Krishna, Buddha, Allah ....

Ravi: Allah is formless God in Islam. It is a BIG blunder to say when I came as Allah. Sathya Sai would never do that, IMHO.

On the basis of all of the above (including blog posts given above) I conclude that Madhusudhan Naidu's claim of being a communicator of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba is a FALSE CLAIM. And I do not need to visit Muddenahalli to arrive at this conclusion as the visit to Muddenahalli can only expose me to some paranormal siddhis he may have including memory and mind reading, which even Radhe Maa of Mumbai, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radhe_Maa, is said to have.

Let me end this post by issuing a challenge to Madhusudhan Naidu:

I challenge Madhusudhan Naidu to give EXTEMPORE (as against prepared/mugged) discourses on Vedas, Vedanta, Puranas and itihasas. I further challenge him to explore matters on these scriptural texts in more detail than what Bhagavan did (in his physical form). If he cannot rise up to these challenges then Madhusudhan Naidu should better STOP claiming to be a communicator and give his darshan, interviews and discourses under his own name or another Baba name like what Kurnool Bala Sai Baba or Nepal's Sanjay Sai Baba have done, instead of being an IMPOSTER sullying the HOLY NAME of Kali Yuga Avatar Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba of PUTTAPARTHI.
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Update on 28th Aug. 2015 having comment exchange on associated Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1655307621352475.

Bharadwaj Vedula wrote: It is not only the evidence of knowledge of scriptures vedantha and philosophical matters, but also the ability to lucidly explain it to the common man. Swami destroyed so many myths one such was the chanting of gayatri mantram. Another was the chanting of vedas collectively. These were path defining and the manner in which Swami would give stories and parables to explain the highest of the truths - Swami was a match only to Himself.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Bharadwaj Vedula: As somebody who is very keenly interested in scripture, I have noted that while Bhagavan usually did simplify spiritual knowledge contained in scripture for common man, he has on many occasions delved deep into scripture which has satisfied the searching questions of Hindu scriptural scholars but may not have made much sense to the common man.

I mean, to me, Bhagavan was the authoritative master of Hindu scripture especially the parts related to Vedanta philosophy and accounts of Avatars. I believe Bhagavan's mastery of Karma Kanda part of the Vedas was also phenomenal which is what convinced some Karma Kanda Vedic pundits to acknowledge Bhagavan's mastery. [I personally have limited exposure to Karma Kanda - some rituals practised as a Sama Vedi Brahmin and some reading of some important Karma Kanda texts like Shatapatha Brahmana, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatapatha_Brahmana. But that is way too limited for me to make any assessment of Bhagavan's mastery of Karma Kanda part of the Vedas.]

So you know, it is not as if Bhagavan has only given the Vedasaara (essence of Vedas) in easy to understand messages for common man like "Love All Serve All" and "Help Ever Hurt Never", which are the type of messages given by Madhusudhan Naidu in his "discourses".

Bhagavan has also demonstrated, in public, his masterly knowledge of Hindu scripture which stamps Bhagavan as the Avatar in the form of a Guru. Madhusudhan Naidu's 'discourses', in stark contrast, have, as far as I know, ZERO demonstration of masterly knowledge of Hindu scripture, which exposes Madhusudhan Naidu as somebody who seems to have some siddhis of memory & mind reading like Radhe Maa of Mumbai, and an IMPOSTER claiming to be a communicator of Bhagavan.
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Bharadwaj Vedula wrote: Completely agree. In private conversations and public discourses, Swami has certainly explained and made us think on the greatest truths of life and philosophy (scriptures, vedantha advaitha). No two ways about it. Nobody should be compared to Swami in this or for that manner on any platform.
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