Monday, March 14, 2016

Discussion on need for First Hand experience about Muddenahalli before stating it is false claim, and more

Given below is a comment exchange I had on the Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/sathyanarayana.raju.9/posts/743933289076491, on 12th & 13th March 2016

S Ramanan Rao wrote (slightly edited):
Dear Clive Raj Valydon, there are many things happened during Avatars glorius 86 years. Swami in Kulwant Hall told once that he is still looking for His true devotee..i think that was in 2007. Many times swami fired and cuddled the same devotee for both meritorious and de-meritorious activities. If we go by what Swami has prescribed qualities for a Devotee, I think no body will qualify. Swami knew this and still made ordinary devotees to a Hero status to carry on His mission. But when I compare our Sai devotees with other organization, we are much blessed by bhagwan to practice the spiritual values in a Dharmic manner. There is one pious lady and devotee of swami in Lucknow, supposed to be Mother of Shirdi Sai, had visions of all GODs possible and the GODs speak to her even today..Many devotees come there and get their wish fulfilled through her from Swami.. The trust has printed her book and experiences. I am not betting for (supporting) MN or anybody...but such things are very much possible and its happening in many places.. One must read BNMs Divya Kripashraya, before commenting anything on him.. In Swamis words, I may Discard you, but I am behind you...Swami is so powerful he will not allow children go out of his fold, even there are some slips. So..other than the False Claim of MN as what others perceive, need a First Hand experience other than what is heard or read.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Sairam brother S Ramanan Rao, what do you expect to get from a First Hand experience of so called communicator Madhusudhan Rao Naidu (MRN) or the associated so called subtle Swami based in Muddenahalli? If MRN tells you about some experience you have had with physical form Swami, will you then start believing that he is saying the words of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, and view him as THE COMMUNICATOR of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba?
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S Ramanan Rao wrote:
Brother Ravi S. Iyer ..i am not here to challenge anyone in this forum. It is one's choice of believing and not believing. Too much of discussion on the same is not leading anybody anywhere. Let people carry on Sais activities wherever they are. I have same logical questions like you on MDH.. But head-to-head doesn't work in swamis work. Heart to Heart one can try and seek answer from swami than from other devotees. Even it is proved that Swami is not behind all these, nothing has been lost or Won. It is Individual Karma and Praaptam will lead to ones goal or destiny. As Swami says ...This also will pass bye".

Human efforts without a complete surrender will not lead anywhere.

Lets focus on the Creator not His creations. All are chosen communicators of Swami and Chosen instruments of Swami.. It is all how an individual devotee take it and practice the same.

Sun, Moon all come and go. Swami is permanent.. Swami said to Hislop that "Detach Swami Attach God".

Why should we worry about Swami?

He can take care of himself Very Well
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Thanks brother S Ramanan Rao for your comment. My comment was in response to your words in your previous comment about need for First Hand experience. Anyway, my view is that First Hand experience is not required in the case of Madhusudhan Rao Naidu's claims as, at the most he may have some powers by which he is able to reveal previous experiences of Swami that devotees have had. A careful study of Madhusudhan Rao Naidu's "discourses" reveals significant variance and even contradiction of important parts of what (physical form) Sathya Sai has said (e.g. Kali Yuga ending claim of Madhusudhan Naidu is directly and strongly contradicted by Swami having told Hislop that Kali Yuga will continue for 5000 years more).

So while Madhusudhan Rao Naidu may have some miraculous powers, he certainly is not speaking the words of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Further, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba has EXPRESSLY AND ON MULTIPLE OCCASIONS IN PUBLIC, asked devotees to stay away from and condemn those who claim to be mediums of his. Bhagavan's relationship with his devotee, Bhagavan said, is DIRECT and heart-to-heart without the need for anybody else to come in between.

BTW Sri Bala Sai Baba of Kurnool also claims to have divine powers, and has a significant following. But he uses a different name, Bala Sai Baba. If Madhusudhan Rao Naidu (MRN) starts giving his darshan, interviews and discourses in his own name or a modified name like Madhu Sai Baba which is different from the HOLY NAME, Sri Sathya Sai Baba, I would not have any objections. I mean, MRN has clearly become a spiritual leader in his own right - let him use his own name for his mission. Why use Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's name for his (MRN's) words?

One of the main reasons why I write actively on this Muddenahalli matter, is that there are many people who do not know what exactly Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba has said about communicators & mediums, and so easily accept the claim of MRN (a Sai university alumnus) which is endorsed by Shri B.N. Narasimhamurthy (a former warden of Sai university). My posts & comments have helped some people on social media to have a more informed view of these claims of Muddenahalli group, and some of them have thanked me for this service I am doing.

Some have the view, and perhaps you share the view, that we should not write critically of Muddenahalli group claims, and leave it to Swami to handle. I disagree with that view as I now feel that it was lack of such open discussions on Muddenahalli that allowed the Sai university HIJACK by Muddenahalli group via former VC Sashidhara Prasad and former warden Shri B.N. Narasimhamurthy to continue for over 3 long years (Jul. 2011 to Nov. 2014 when Sashidhara Prasad stepped down as VC of Sai university). That HIJACK of Sai university by Muddenahalli group allowed Muddenahalli group to grow from a small sapling to a big tree today (many Sai university alumni have been the main force behind Muddenahalli group) which has caused and continues to cause great confusion and division in the Sathya Sai movement WORLDWIDE.

Now you may have a different view from mine and may disagree with my view. That's fine with me. We can always amicably agree to disagree :-). Jai Sairam!
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
BTW I thought I should inform readers of this comment exchange that brother S Ramanan Rao and I were in the same samithi - Dombivli (near Mumbai), Maharashtra samithi (I was in it from around 1993 to 2002 when I shifted to Puttaparthi; Ramanan also moved out of Dombivli some years ago). So we know each other quite well.
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S Ramanan Rao wrote:
Thanks Bro Ravi S. Iyer for reminding me those great memories of Dombivli Samiti.. I moved to Bangalore in 2006 end, and continuing to be part of the Organization and Malleswaram Samiti. What more I can ask to Swami?.

From Balavikas to till date...almost and more than four decades Swami is keeping me and my family with him...

Is it not a greatest Miracle of all?

Thanks and Love you Swami..
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Yes brother S Ramanan Rao, Dombivli samithi memories are great. I am very grateful for the wonderful sathsang that I got in Dombivli samithi in the initial stages of my journey to Sai.

One of Bhagavan's great and lasting miracles is that of spiritual & human values transformation of lives of people that He did while in physical form, and continues to do now at formless level through his GREAT LEGACY of teachings, literature on devotees' experiences (before and after Mahasamadhi) which continues to grow, the wonderful Indian and international Sai organization that he nurtured and grew along with the contributions of so many Sai devotees in India and abroad, His love for everybody whether devotee or not which can be experienced to some extent through the videos, audios and even photographs of Him that are easily accessible etc.

Bhagavan, indirectly via his writings & discourses and the Sathya Sai organization, and directly via darshan, discourses and facial gesture interactions that I was blessed to have with his physical form (mainly in the period Oct. 2002 to March 2011 in Prasanthi Nilayam/Puttaparthi as I was living in Puttaparthi then (and do so now) and was part of the ashram system for most of this period), certainly transformed my life for the better from a spiritual and human values perspective, though I must also say that I still have some spiritual and human flaws :-) which I am working on. I am deeply grateful to Bhagavan for this transformation in terms of spiritual and human values that he has brought into my life, and pray to Him in his formless aspect who/which I firmly believe is in the depth of my heart (as taught by Him), to continue to improve me in terms of spiritual and human values.

I am so glad to know that you and family have been with Bhagavan and His Sai organization for more than four decades, and that you are part of Malleswaram, Bangalore samithi of Sai organization now. That is surely a great blessing of Bhagavan on you and your family.

Is the transformation that Bhagavan has done in devotees' lives His greatest miracle? From our devotees' perspective, perhaps many will agree. But what does Bhagavan Himself say about his greatest miracle? I searched sssbpt.info for it and got this discourse which has some paragraphs related to it along with Bhagavan's words on Sai organization. I think it is very appropriate for this discussion. From http://www.sssbpt.info/ssspeaks/volume23/sss23-35.pdf (Valedictory discourse to the Fifth World Conference of Sai Organization at Hill View Stadium on 24-11-1990):

Today our Conference has come to a close. When you go forth from here, you must carry with you wherever you go, the sacred ideas you have gathered here. Moreover, you must interest your friends and relations in these ideas and draw them into service activities. Do not entertain any fear or embarrassment regarding your participation in service activities. Be firmly convinced that what you are doing is something sacred. In service, there is nothing good or bad. Whatever requires to be done to serve anyone, at any time, in any form, you should do without hesitation. There are in the Sathya Sai Organization lakhs of such sevaks. And it is because of that we have been able to have this prodigious Conference. There are any number of preachers in the world. There are equally numerous scholars. But there are few who practise what they preach and make others do likewise. Here alone there is a power that simultaneously preaches and practises. Whatever I say, I practise. I speak only on what I am doing. The students present here know this well. Love, love, love. I love all and I ask all to love. My greatest wealth is love. People speak about My powers and My miracles, but My Love is My greatest miracle. All should share in this love. Only then there will be oneness.

All of you should take a vow continually to develop the Seva Organizations. Let all join in the activities. Treat all as the children of one God. Whomsoever you may serve, consider you are serving God. Then you will experience the Divine. You are bound to have that experience soon.

Never give up the organization. Regard it as the breath of your life. This is real penance. Having this firm resolve, become exemplary leaders. This is My sole desire. Swami's love will accompany you everywhere.

--- end extract of Bhagavan discourse ---

Ravi: So Bhagavan's words are that His greatest miracle is His Love. He says, I love all and I ask all to love. I think Bhagavan truly loved all and demonstrated that in His life. That perhaps is the BIGGEST ASPECT/ATTRIBUTE of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. I mean, even when he was critical of somebody or was giving somebody disciplinary treatment (usually by ignoring the person), it was His FATHERLY love for the person that was making him give some tough love to correct the person.

Brother Ramanan, may I share your comments above on my free blog, ravisiyer.blogspot.com, (along with my comment responses)? I think it will be of interest to some readers of my blog. Do not feel obliged in any way to say, Yes :-) . Thanks. Jai Sairam!
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S Ramanan Rao wrote (slightly edited):
Bro. Ravi S. Iyer, yes..you can use the comments.., , also I have learnt many things about Swami from Shri. Rai, convenor of Dombivli Samiti and the beautiful Study circle conducted by Prema Didi.

Unforgettable days... In fact Rai uncle extended my Marriage Invitation to Swami on 17th June 1997, and was called for an Interview and Swami blessed with a Robe. I left 16th night from Parthi back to Mumbai for work..

Many devotees children from Dombivli Samiti later studied in Parthi campus, weekly Nagar sankirthans from different temples, Narayana Seva in Leprosy camp every week in Vittalwadi are few to be highlighted and from those activities I was mostly engaged..and mobilizing funds was not (encouraged) those days...as many devotees were from middle class family.

The commitment that devotees had was highly inspiring and charging.

Reminiscing (that) I was coming to know more about my Swami from that Samiti.

Sometime Ignorance is Bliss I feel!

I think we need only His Love nothing else. Rest all are Maya alone!

Wow..you have pushed me to bring out all those nostalgic memories of that Samiti.

Similar to it, my Balavikas days to sevadal days that I have spent in Erode between 1974- 1986.. Shri. Kasturi once had come down to our Samiti (based) on Swami's instruction.. He spoke to all Balvikas children and I don't remember many things that he had told, for me it was alien, but He made us remember one important message of Swami...(which) is

Die-Mind is Diamond!

Wow.. Thanks Swami.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Thanks brother S Ramanan Rao. I will share your above comment too. I agree with your statements about Dombivli samithi, in general. BTW it is Mr. Rai (not Roy) and he is on Facebook now, M.b. Rai!

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