Friday, March 25, 2016

Muddenahalli so called subtle form believers & promoters are in psychological denial state of mind

Last updated on March 31st 2016

Given below is a recent comment of mine on Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/sathyanarayana.raju.9/posts/756610061142147:

My view about brother VijaySai B.S.'s (VSBS) experiences with Madhusudhan Rao Naidu (MRN) is that MRN seems to have demonstrated some paranormal powers/siddhis to VSBS. Further, MRN seems to have not asked VSBS to do anything ADHARMIC. So VSBS has developed great faith in MRN. MRN impersonates many aspects of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba (Swami), and claims to be a so called communicator of a so called subtle body of Swami, which VSBS, primarily due to his faith in MRN, believes to be true.

For me, it was Swami's teachings & writings on Veda & Vedanta and about Hindu Avatars (Bhagavat Purana, Ramayana & Mahabharata), ALONG WITH DIRECT EXPERIENCES of Swami's paranormal powers, that made me take the view that everything that Swami says is true. So I can understand the psychological state of mind of brother VSBS in regard to his belief in MRN.

But where, in my humble opinion, VSBS is going wrong is in REFUSING TO ACCEPT certain FACTS that show that MRN's words & reactions/absence of reactions CONTRADICT what Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba said and did. For example:

a) MRN announced grandly that Kali Yuga was ending in Oct. 2015 and that Sathya Yuga will start immediately after (in Oct. 2015 itself). But Sathya Sai told Hislop that Kali Yuga will go on for 5,000 years more!!

b) An important figure of Muddenahalli group said on stage at a Christmas eve function in Muddenhalli in Dec. 2015 that (so called subtle) Swami has asked him to open a casino in Las Vegas, USA. MRN was seated right in front of the stage, and did not react to that statement. Now I do not know whether MRN actually said that to this important figure of Muddenhalli group. Let us assume that MRN DID NOT SAY THAT but that the important figure of Muddenahalli group imagined that MRN had said it. Having been in Sai Kulwant Hall, Prasanthi Nilayam, on a regular basis (from Oct. 2002 to Mar. 2011) for so many speeches of Swami devotees given in physical presence of Swami, there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that if Swami was listening to these words, or if Swami was informed about it later on by other elders of Prasanthi Nilayam, Swami would have gone out of His way to ensure that this matter was PUBLICLY CORRECTED AND DENIED (and that would have been done either on the same day or the next day). CASINOS are places where GAMBLING is done!! Now one can take an Advaita view and say all is Divine and all activities, good and bad, are DIVINE. But Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, as part of his role as teacher and leader of Sathya Sai devotees/movement, NEVER encouraged GAMBLING. It is UNTHINKABLE for me to presume that Swami would ever say or TOLERATE somebody else saying that in His presence IN PUBLIC!!

VSBS tries to avoid the CONTRADICTIONS between Swami and MRN by lapsing into statements like we have to go by the heart to understand spiritual reality. I hope brother VSBS does not get offended by the following words of mine. But I do not say them in anger. I say them because it has to be said to prevent more people getting trapped in MRN's FALSE CLAIM that he is speaking Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba's words. One also has to note that VSBS is playing a role of a noted promoter of this FALSE BELIEF. IMHO, VSBS has got into the psychological denial state of mind when it comes to these contradictions. Psychological denial is described by wikipedia, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial, as follows:
The same word [Ravi: denial], and also abnegation (German: Verneinung), is used for a psychological defense mechanism postulated by psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud, in which a person is faced with a fact that is too uncomfortable to accept and rejects it instead, insisting that it is not true despite what may be overwhelming evidence.
--- end wiki extract---

Psychological denial is not uncommon in spiritual groups & movements as a defence mechanism against unpleasant truths about their spiritual group/movement. Further, psychological denial is said to be effective in the short-term to cope with such unpleasant truths. Here's some fascinating info. from the same wiki page, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial:
Many contemporary psychoanalysts treat denial as the first stage of a coping cycle. When an unwelcome change occurs, a trauma of some sort, the first impulse to disbelieve begins the process of coping. That denial, in a healthy mind, slowly rises to greater consciousness. Gradually becoming a subconscious pressure, just beneath the surface of overt awareness, the mechanism of coping then involves repression, while the person accumulates the emotional resources to fully face the trauma. Once faced, the person deals with the trauma in a stage alternately called acceptance or enlightenment, depending on the scope of the issue and the therapist's school of thought. After this stage, once sufficiently dealt with, or dealt with for the time being, the trauma must sink away from total conscious awareness again. Left metaphorically upon a back burner or put away in a cupboard, the process of sublimation involves a balance of neither quite forgetting nor quite remembering. This allows the trauma to re-emerge in consciousness if it involves an ongoing process such as a protracted illness. Or sublimation may begin the full resolution process, where the trauma finally sinks away into eventual forgetfulness.
--- end wiki extract ---

Ravi: I think a lot of (if not all) Muddenahalli group believers who have had DIRECT EXPERIENCE of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba (physical form) may be into this psychological denial, and the MRN impersonation of some aspects of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba coupled with some paranormal powers/siddhis that MRN seems to have acquired, gives them a way to cope with the TRAUMA of absence of Swami with whom people could interact with by normal speaking & listening (as against interacting with inner voice/conscience formless aspect of Swami IN ALL OF OUR HEARTS/INNER BEING). MRN's interactions with them gives these people some relief from this TRAUMA.

But the IMPERSONATION/IMITATION cannot be the REAL THING! Eventually the IMPERSONATION/IMITATION will get known to all, or almost everybody (some die-hard believers caught up deeply in the FALSE BELIEF may never come out of it), to be FALSE. Meanwhile some persons caught up in the IMPERSONATION/IMITATION could get GROSSLY MISGUIDED by MRN's words & instructions given in the HOLY NAME of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba (like saying that Kali Yuga is over and that we are in Sathya Yuga OR that opening (GAMBLING) CASINOS is good BEHAVIOUR acceptable to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba; BOTH OF WHICH ARE COMPLETELY FALSE as I am sure that Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba would NEVER SAY or APPROVE OF THAT IN PUBLIC).
========================================

A comment exchange from the FB post mentioned at the top of this post, https://www.facebook.com/sathyanarayana.raju.9/posts/756610061142147. There are other interesting comment responses too, but I am skipping them to focus on bro. VijaySai B.S., Sai university (SSSIHL) alumnus, former Sai university faculty, speaker (has spoken in front of physical form Bhagavan many times, I am informed) & singer, and so quite a Sai university alumnus (Sai student) STAR, who has been a key promoter of Madhusudhan Rao Naidu from sometime in 2011 itself [VijaySai B.S. wrote in a comment on the above Facebook post: "Madhu called me in September 2011 with a message from Swami. I had heard that he had been seeing Swami and passing on messages from Maha Samadhi time. My first experience of Him acting as an instrument was on 18th September 2011 when Swami proved to my doubting mind that it was indeed Him."]

VijaySai B.S. wrote:
Thanks bro Ravi Iyer. I feel that people who do not want to accept Swami's continuation in the Sookshma Shareera are actually in denial. Swami said I will continue till 96. Swami also said that He will be going on a foreign tour shortly. Swami had indicated that He will be staying on a hilltop towards the end of this avatar. In spite of all this, people are in denial that He is here. So all those reading this, with no offense meant to brother Ravi Iyer, I would say, leave your denial. Let not hearsay and viewing of videos with a prejudiced mindset influence you and make you lose out on Swami. I would honestly advise you to personally come, see, feel, experience and then conclude for yourselves if it is Swami or someone conning in His name. Do not judge without personal experience.
----

Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Thanks for your kind response bro. VijaySai B.S. Let us examine who is in denial, you or me.

Do you accept or deny the statement that Mr. Isaac Tigrett of Muddenahalli group said on stage at a Christmas eve function in Muddenhalli in Dec. 2015 that (so called subtle) Swami has asked him to open a casino in Las Vegas, USA?
----

VijaySai B.S. wrote (slightly edited):
Brother Ravi S. Iyer, this is with regards to your putting a question about Las Vegas and Tigrid, please awatit my detailed response. Brother Pardha Saradhi Uppala has tagged me to prove that the vilification posted by --name-snipped-- about Anandam, about the Benteley car, about Tigrid etc are actually concocted. I have already spoken to Tigrid about the same. I am in the process of getting information on a couple of more items that have been glibly lied about by brother --name-snipped-- without checking facts. I will be answering it on the page where I have been tagged in regarding the same probably by tomorrow after I get more details.
----

Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Thanks brother VijaySai B.S. for your kind response. Do take your time. BTW the name is Mr. Isaac Tigrett. I do have great respect for his GREAT ACT OF GIVING which was a major factor in the Super hospital in Puttaparthi coming up. So the question I have raised is nothing personal against Mr. Isaac Tigrett. I do wish him all the very best. And I wish you too, all the very best.
My objective in engaging in this conversation with you is to simply unearth the truth (Sathyaanveshan) for the benefit of the Sathya Sai fraternity (which includes you and me). Let me end with two mottos of Sanathana Dharma which are very dear to me: Sathyaan Naasti Paro Dharmaha - there is no higher Dharma (ethical way of life) than truth, and Sathyameva Jayate - Truth alone is victorious.
----

Ravi S. Iyer wrote on March 28th 2016:
Bro. VijaySai B.S.. I thought we could speed up our discussion on the question I had raised, which I repeat below, "Do you accept or deny the statement that Mr. Isaac Tigrett of Muddenahalli group said on stage at a Christmas eve function in Muddenhalli in Dec. 2015 that (so called subtle) Swami has asked him to open a casino in Las Vegas, USA?"

I had seen the video of the Christmas eve program in Muddenahalli on the OFFICIAL Sathya Sai Vrinda channel of MDH group (now that video is no longer accessible on Sathya Sai Vrinda channel) where Mr. Isaac Tigrett said the statement I mentioned above.

A clip of these words of Mr. Tigrett can be seen here (you will have to excuse some strong words against MDH which appear in the text added to the video), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swY8110AZ_8, around 1 min. I hereby state that the part of the video which shows the clip of Mr. Tigrett making these statements, is the same that I recall from what I had seen in the video put up by the official Sathya Sai Vrinda channel of MDH group. In other words, the clip of Mr. Tigrett is not a fabrication.

Given the video clip and my statements above, could you tell me what your response is to the question I have mentioned at the top of this comment?
---
A previous minor exchange:
Ravi S. Iyer wrote on March 26th 2016:
VijaySai B.S. As you did not spell Mr. Tigrett's name correctly, I get the impression that you do not know how famous a person he is, in the Western world, outside the Sai devotee community. He has a wikipedia page! You may want to have a look at it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Tigrett. Only people who have achieved some degree of fame have wikipedia pages on them.
---
VijaySai B.S. wrote on March 26th 2016:
Thanks Ravi brother. Mine was a typo that could have been avoided. Thanks for the Wiki reference. I knew Tigrett from PN. I however registered his name wrongly from my student days as TIGRID. That spelling comes up when I am not conscious. He used to talk to me well after darshan even when I used to meet him at Prashanti Nilayam. I did not know his stature then. Only in the last few years, when I as the MC introduced him on stage a few times did I realize the actual stature he enjoys, his modesty and humility in spite of his stature. I also realized then the actual spelling of his name. Personally we share a very good rapport as he is interested in hypnotherapy, healing, aura photography and the other stuff I do in my day to day life. Thanks for going out of your way to let me know more about him. I did not know that he had a dedicated Wiki page.
---
Ravi S. Iyer wrote on 30th March 2016:
Bro. VijaySai B.S., this is just a gentle reminder :-) about the above comment & question of mine, in case you have not seen it or saw it but got caught up in work/home activities.
---

Pardha Saradhi Uppala wrote on 30th March 2016:
VijaySai B.S., you have also mentioned you are going to get us a lot of genuine information about closing down of the clock tower, selling of the car, contractors not being paid, the Casino business etc. It's been very long you had promised that and you spoke like you had all proofs that would absolve Muddenahalli Madhu but there is no further news from you on these...
---

VijaySai B.S. wrote on 30th March 2016 (slightly edited):
True Clive [Ravi: Clive had written that VijaySai needs to gather info ...]. When I write, I write with integrity with full facts of the case with evidence. My personal reputation and honour is at stake when I vouch for something on Social Media. All the 600-800 students I have taught in SSSIHL, all the 100s of contemporaries and my peers during my student days, all my colleagues from PN & Brindavan, all my alumni brethren, all the functionaries of SSSO who know me, many from each of the categories mentioned who absolutely do not believe in the subtle phenomenon will still vouch for my honesty, integrity and character in spite of my beliefs being diametrically opposite to theirs. I cannot risk my integrity without getting adequate evidence. I spoke to one contractor just now. Need to speak to another doing a different project tomorrow morning. Spoke to Sir Isaac Tigrett reconfirming what he told me in January. Getting some photos taken. I can't support something for the sake of supporting without my being 100% convinced of the genuineness of the information. Writing on FB is a responsibility and I do not get into knee-jerk reactions on it as I am accountable for what I write.
---

Ravi S. Iyer wrote on 31st March 2016:
Bro. VijaySai B.S. I certainly appreciate your comment that you write with integrity and that your personal reputation and honour is at stake (when you respond to such matters). Noted that you are gathering information and evidence about the matters raised in these interactions which include some matters raised by a recent Facebook post on MDH contractors' payment dues, Sathya Sai Anandam, Bentley car etc. I, and I am quite sure others like bros. Clive Raj Valydon, Pardha Saradhi Uppala & Rajen Rajen, do appreciate your willingness to interact with us on this matter, with honesty & integrity.

But time is also a factor in these social media interactions. My humble suggestion is that you can share what you have already gathered, without having to wait till you have gathered all the information. I mean, you can go for an incremental sharing approach. I wonder whether you can respond now itself to MY STRAIGHTFORWARD QUERY alone (not related to any money or luxury car related matters), which I will repeat here for your convenience:

"Do you accept or deny the statement that Mr. Isaac Tigrett of Muddenahalli group said on stage at a Christmas eve function in Muddenhalli in Dec. 2015 that (so called subtle) Swami has asked him to open a casino in Las Vegas, USA?"

I had seen the video of the Christmas eve program in Muddenahalli on the OFFICIAL Sathya Sai Vrinda channel of MDH group (now that video is no longer accessible on Sathya Sai Vrinda channel) where Mr. Isaac Tigrett said the statement I mentioned above.

A clip of these words of Mr. Tigrett can be seen here (you will have to excuse some strong words against MDH which appear in the text added to the video), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swY8110AZ_8, around 1 min. I hereby state that the part of the video which shows the clip of Mr. Tigrett making these statements, is the same that I recall from what I had seen in the video put up by the official Sathya Sai Vrinda channel of MDH group. In other words, the clip of Mr. Tigrett is not a fabrication.

Given the video clip and my statements above, could you tell me what your response is to the question I have raised above?
--- end repetition of MY STRAIGHTFORWARD QUERY ---

I would like to add to what you said about your personal honour and integrity being at stake in your responses to the questions. Well, my personal reputation for integrity & honesty is also at stake in what I write on social media about these matters. And, it is much, much bigger than you and me and Clive, Pardha, Rajen, Mr. Isaac Tigrett etc. It is the legacy of and the continuing work in the name of our beloved Lord, Kali Yuga Avatar, Shiva-Shakti Swarupa Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Further, we have to be FAITHFUL to Bhagavan. I consider myself answerable to Bhagavan, my Guru and my Ishta Devata to whom I am deeply grateful, and I am sure you too consider yourself to be answerable to Bhagavan. As you and I both were in the Sai university as teachers, both you and I know that if we did something really wrong we would have to FACE THE CONSEQUENCES from physical form Bhagavan during darshan/sambhashan - at least, I have had that experience (in particular in 2010 with some major personal issue I had then).

In Bhagavan's physical absence, I consider myself answerable to my conscience (as I view that as the inner voice of God/Absolute Brahman). And perhaps some day I may find myself face-to-face with physical form Prema Sai. If I have been UNFAITHFUL to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, Bhagavan Prema Sai Baba will let me know of that by his gestures/words - this much I am sure of. So I greatly fear being UNFAITHFUL to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, as that will not only harm my spiritual progress, but also come in the way of any future blessed interactions I may have with Prema Sai Baba.

To conclude, in my considered opinion, we will be held accountable for our honesty & integrity (or lack of it) in these vital conversations regarding the claims made by Bro. Madhusudhan Rao Naidu, by Bhagavan, at formless level and in future physical form, Prema Sai, if we are blessed to have interactions with that physical form. It is not just being accountable to the Sai university alumni & staff, functionaries of Sai orgn. and Sai devotees in general, but being accountable to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba (at formless level and a future physical form Prema Sai Baba).
-----

VijaySai B.S. wrote on 31st March 2016:
Myth 7: CASINO BY ISAAC TIGRETT was directed by Swami in Sukshma Shareera:
I met Isaac Tigrett and asked him. “Sir, during your Christmas speech, you mentioned about Casino in Las Vegas. Did you get the instructions in a meditation or through Madhu?”
His reply “Swami had asked me to do this during an interview with the physical form in 2009 in Prashanti Nilayam. He repeated the same now."
www.isaac-tigrett.com/
----

Ravi S. Iyer wrote on 31st March 2016:
Thanks bro. VijaySai B.S. for your response regarding the Las Vegas casino. Hmm. So Mr. Isaac Tigrett says that physical form Swami told him to open a casino in Las Vegas, USA, in an interview in 2009!!! And when Mr. Tigrett says, "He repeated the same now", Mr. Tigrett refers to so called subtle Swami communicating through bro. Madhusudhan Rao Naidu, as He, I presume. Hmm. I am lost for words right now. But thank you so much, bro. VijaySai for checking with Mr. Tigrett and communicating his words to us.
----

Ravi S. Iyer wrote on 31st March 2016:
VijaySai B.S., I have now been able to digest, to some extent, the information you passed on in your comment related to the casino statement. I cannot comment on private interview exchanges between physical form Swami and Mr. Tigrett (I have never had an interview with Bhagavan; neither did I pray or wish for one).

But let me ask you brother VijaySai, do you think Bhagavan would approve of Mr. Tigrett mentioning in PUBLIC in His presence, that Bhagavan has asked him to open a casino in Las Vegas? Would not the subtle body of Swami communicate with the so called communicator, and ask him (the communicator) to PUBLICLY criticize Mr. Tigrett's PUBLIC statement?

Let me give you my answer. From what I have seen of Bhagavan in Sai Kulwanth Hall, Prasanthi Nilayam from Oct. 2002 to Mar. 2011, I simply cannot imagine Bhagavan NOT PUBLICLY criticizing such words said in PUBLIC. I am sure that if something like this had happened in the period I mentioned (as I have experienced Bhagavan in physical form at that time on a regular basis in Sai Kulwanth Hall, Prasanthi Nilayam), either Bhagavan himself would have caught it and corrected it, or somebody would have brought it to Bhagavan's attention after which Bhagavan would have PUBLICLY CORRECTED the statement and would have left no doubt in listeners' minds that Bhagavan DOES NOT APPROVE of devotees' opening gambling centres like casinos.
----

[I thank Wikipedia and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above extracts from their website on this comment which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]

4 comments:

  1. Sairam Sir...I think earlier what I had written in your blog to ask bro. "Vijay Sai" on behalf of me you couldn't get my point completely...A few years back if you were aware belivers of "Sai Baba of Shirdi" collecting money from people asking as donation to build temples or filling wishes in the name of "Sai Baba of shirdi" everywhere haphazardly but later on when it came into the notice of "Sai Baba sansthan,shirdi" it took an emphatic step making guideline to not build temples or be in the trap of the people who deceive others in the name of "BABA"as coming in dreams giving instructions or to take rings/tabeejs(talismas)...It also worked effectively so that people started to believe "Prior Permission of Sai Baba sansthan,Shirdi" is required...The same/similar is case here...Now if for a few moments if we forget any particular form of "GOD" & think that how the people who dedicate/observe/enquire every single word of "Srimad Bhagvad Geeta"...Aren't they getting blessings or feel the divine presence of "Omniscient Lord"...The reason why I'm writing all these even if the "Lord(Krishna) isn't physically present" his divine majesty has been proved countless times by such devotees who observe his every "Single word"...Now the question is if bro. Vijay Sai is so much communicated with the subtle body why he(Vijay Sai) not asking him to come to local SAI samithis or his videos(Leelas) be telecasted in "Metro SAI Centres" so that other SAI belivers who are working tirelessly,unconditionally,selflessly over so many years to "Sai Organization" over the years can have the bliss or are they all sinners only(Less than MDH devotees)...I hope this time you'll get my point Sir...In one line my question is "How the Subtle Body can become so much selfish"???????

    ReplyDelete
  2. Sir kindly observe the full episode...Is this what MRN doing!!!

    http://aajtak.intoday.in/karyakrams/video/adbhut-avishwasniya-akalpniya.html

    ReplyDelete
  3. Sairam Sir, I just came across this v. profound and interesting quotation at this link:

    https://www.facebook.com/SathyaSaiWithStudents/photos/a.408307469252829.99829.383848508365392/1005181476232089/?type=3&theater

    "If somebody says Sai Baba's powers have been given to him, then we run to him. Sai Baba's powers are such that they are not given to anybody else. Nobody has the ability to take powers from Sai Baba, nor the ability to give them to someone else. Sai Baba's powers are not given like that, and you should not be led away by such statements. Each one's power is within him; it is not possible to give such power to another person. In this manner, by allowing a weak mind to get control over us, if we begin running from place to place, when are we going to get strength of mind, and control our own mind? We must be able to follow one thought, one path. One does not have to search for spiritual power, going around the world and spending a lot of money. Be in your own house, develop it in yourself, such spiritual power is in YOU! You don't have to run for it here and there. God is not external; God is not outside you; God is inside you."

    -- SRI SATHYA SAI
    March 28, 1975
    Brindavan

    Just wanted to share this.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Wonderful and insightful quote from Bhagavan. Thanks Aarthi. Jai Sairam!

      Delete