Wednesday, March 23, 2016

VijaySai B.S. says (Muddenahalli) subtle form believers are not causing division!!! My rebuttal

Last updated on 24th March 2016

Given below is a comment I made recently on Facebook post:

Bro. VijaySai B.S. I would like to draw your attention to your words in a comment above, "we the subtle form believers are not the one causing any division. It is the other way around."

How do you say that subtle form believers have not caused division? This defeats logic and rational thinking. I do think you have got carried away by your emotional attachment to the so called subtle form belief, and have lost your rational judgement on this matter.

It is UNDENIABLE to those who know about these matters that Shri Indulal Shah sir (IS) and Shri B.N Narasimhamurthy (BNN) were the driving force in the CRUCIAL period of a year or so after Mahasamadhi (end April 2011) when they ENCOURAGED their contacts in the Sathya Sai fraternity to donate money to the trust created by BNN, as they claimed that Swami is giving instructions via dreams to BNN. The Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust (SSSCT) did not agree to these claims. This part is UNDENIABLE and FACTUAL. Essentially the Trust got split with Shri Indulal Shah continuing to sit as a trustee of SSSCT but lending support to BNN and his new trust!!! Of course, this is DIVISION. How can anybody say that it is not DIVISION? The top mother body of the Sai orgn. is SSSCT. By creating a DIRECT COMPETITOR to SSSCT in the CRUCIAL PERIOD of a year after Mahasamadhi, BNN and IS, DIVIDED the Sathya Sai movement right at the core of the movement. In the history of the Sathya Sai Movement, I am very sure that BNN and IS will be viewed as the persons who, despite their SUPERHUMAN and VERY LAUDABLE contributions to the Sathya Sai movement before Mahasamadhi, became the key leaders who BROKE AWAY from the SSSCT, drew many Sathya Sai devotees and donors to their BREAKAWAY group based in Muddenahalli, and created MAJOR DIVISION in the Sathya Sai movement WORLDWIDE.

Prof. Anilkumar Kamaraju (AK) is reported to have approached some powerful donors abroad (in second half of 2011, if I recall correctly) to not go by BNN's Swami dream instructions (of donating money to his trust) and instead go only by direct instructions from Swami to them (e.g. via Swami dream instructions directly to them). At least some of these donors then held back from donating money to BNN. Then one saw the administration of Sri Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Learning (Sai university) start pulling up Prof. Anilkumar Kamaraju (a show-cause notice was issued to him, if I recall correctly), for minor administrative matters like not taking permission from the university authorities before going abroad (which nobody would have dared to do if Bhagavan was in physical form as AK would have escalated the matter to Bhagavan, the founder-chancellor of the Sai university). Over time (happened sometime in 2012 I believe), AK was forced to resign from the Sai university. The then vice-chancellor Sashidhara Prasad who had become a believer and follower of BNN, has to be held responsible for this TEACHER-DROHAM (DROHAM means significant and wrongful harm, in this context; significant and wrongful harm done to a teacher) to AK done by the Sai university (perhaps under the Swami dream instructions of BNN). The then Director of Prasanthi Nilayam campus, Sudhir Bhaskar, who at that time at least was a close confidant of BNN, was the key SSSIHL official who asked AK to write out and give his resignation letter. The then joint director of Prasanthi Nilayam campus, Gangadhara Sastry, is reported to have later offered Visiting Faculty post to AK!!! The registrar of SSSIHL, Naren Ramji, did nothing at all to stop this, and sent a letter to AK that his resignation has been accepted. The DARK CONSPIRACY to have AK, the LOYAL servant of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba fighting against the HIJACK of SSSIHL by BNN and Sashidhara PRasad, removed from SSSIHL (over 2011-12 after Mahasamadhi and culminating sometime in second half of 2012) had succeeded!

What an academic conspiracy it was (in 2011-12) in SSSIHL under the TRAITOR vice-chancellor Sashidhara Prasad who refused to follow instructions of Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust which had given him that post! The very, very sad aspect was that SSSCT was not able to summon the courage and guts to DISMISS the TRAITOR vice-chancellor Sashidhara Prasad as I guess they feared that with his political contacts and influence he could create a lot of trouble for SSSCT if they did that. So it had become Sashidhara Prasad Institute of Higher Learning and BNN had become the Swami-successor of the university, with SSSCT having been reduced to a MUTE SPECTATOR of the ASATHYA & ADHARMA that SSSIHL had fallen into, and had to SILENTLY pay the money for salaries (good sixth pay commission salaries forced by Sashidhara Prasad in July 2011 on threat of resignation if it was not implemented) and other expenses of SSSIHL which was from the Bhaktula sommu (devotees' money) that Bhagavan had organized as the SSSCT corpus.

Was this not DIVISION and the horrors of DIVISION that came upon the Sai university due to BNN and Sashidhara Prasad following BNN? Of course, it was. And the BAD EFFECTS of those horrors of DIVISION continue in the Sai university, as some of the TEACHER-DROHIS (those who have committed significant and wrongful harm to teachers) I mentioned above continue to be in SSSIHL!!!

Bro. VijaySai B.S., you had written in the past that AK was your principal in Brindavan campus. What have you done to support AK when he was HORRIBLY TARGETED by SSSIHL administrators as I wrote above? Have you been faithful to your former principal and done your Dharmic duty towards your former principal? Have you at least offered your sympathy to him for how these TEACHER-DROHIS brutally marginalized him and forced him to resign? I am sure that all the TEACHER-DROHIS of SSSIHL who conspired against AK in this fashion - Sashidhara Prasad, Sudhir Bhaskar, Naren Ramji and Gangadhara Sastry - will have to face the NEGATIVE KARMIC CONSEQUENCES of their SINS of TEACHER-DROHAM. Karma does not spare even those who do ADHARMA in the physical presence of the Avatar. This is what we can learn from our sacred epics, Ramayana and Mahabharata. Mere proximity to physical presence of the Avatar, and displaying tens and hundreds of pictures taken with Swami, does not mean that the TEACHER-DROHIS will not suffer for the sins they have committed.

Brother VijaySai B.S., in my considered view, you are being completely BLIND to FACTS about the DIVISION and the ASSOCIATED DAMAGE that the main leaders of the Muddenahalli subtle form belief group and the subtle form belief followers, have done to the Sathya Sai movement. Given this DAMAGE it is natural and appropriate that subtle form believers will be viewed with great suspicion and as very dangerous to Prasanthi Nilayam based Sathya Sai movement. Mind you, we keep hearing attempts by Muddenahalli group to poach staff from Prasanthi Nilayam based institutions.

--- end comment on Facebook post mentioned above ---

Ravi: I should also add that the TEACHER-DROHIS in my case in the Sai university, namely Sashidhara Prasad, V. Chandrasekaran and Naren Ramji (with Sudhir Bhaskar being a supporter of this TEACHER-DROHAM) will also have to face the NEGATIVE KARMIC CONSEQUENCES of their TEACHER-DROHAM sins. I have documented the TEACHER-DROHAM done against me by SSSIHL in great detail elsewhere. In short - nine years of FREE SERVICE to SSSIHL but they HUMILIATED me by ILLEGALLY - CRIMINAL OFFENCE under the Indian Penal Code - showing me as Teaching Assistant. TEACHER-DROHI Naren Ramji (Registrar) called me over email to his office "WITH LOVE", and told me that the letter he had given me earlier where my designation was Visiting Faculty had been given just like that, and that I was Seva Dal. Now I viewed myself as Seva Dal but the Registrar of SSSIHL cannot do ILLEGAL record-tampering by calling me whatever he wants! That is behaving like some cheap THUG and BULLY. Naren Ramji is UTTERLY UNFIT to be the Registrar of Love All Serve All, Divine university, and has instead used his position as Registrar to HUMILIATE teachers including senior faculty like Prof. Krupanidhi. How he has continued to stay on as Registrar despite all this TEACHER-DROHAM that he has done is a wonder. They say that he is heavily supported and PROTECTED by SSSCT trustee Shri K. Chakravarthi which is why Naren Ramji can get away with doing anything that he wants to do. But I don't know how true it is (K. Chakravarthi being PROTECTOR of Naren Ramji).

Sashidhara Prasad, instead of encouraging me for the wonderful work students & I were doing on Sri Sathya Sai Vidya Vahini project, asked me to sing bhajans and follow whatever HOD V. Chandrasekaran tells me to do (Chandrasekaran was DEAD AGAINST my association with Sri Sathya Sai Vidya Vahini). Sashidhara Prasad COMPLETELY FAILED in doing his ACADEMIC DUTY as vice-chancellor and behaved like some power-crazy dictator instead. Today, how I wish I had shouted at him in the vice-chancellor's cabin, and told him ON HIS FACE that he was FAILING IN HIS DUTY AS VICE-CHANCELLOR. But then at that time (July-August 2011), just a few months after Mahasamadhi when there was great concern about stability of Prasanthi Nilayam ashram and institutions, I viewed him as next to Bhagavan, and in Bhagavan's physical absence, as the leader of not only Sai university but also as one of the important leaders of Prasanthi Nilayam. So I simply listened to all his TEACHER-DROHI words quietly, apologized to him for the trouble that I had caused by fighting with Chandrasekaran's attempts to block students & me from associating with Sri Sathya Sai Vidya Vahini project, and left his cabin silently. My view then was that I was only an expendable Visiting Faculty in SSSIHL and that I should quietly get out of SSSIHL as I had lost faith in the leadership of SSSIHL i.e. people like vice-chancellor, Sashidhara Prasad and Maths & Comp.Sc. Dept. Head, Chandrasekaran.

Shaun Brown responded to my comment on Facebook post,, which (comment) is the main content of this blog post, as follows (slightly edited mainly to add paragraph breaks):

Sai Ram Ravi, thank you for your insight into the behaviour of the Muddenahalli supporters in Puttaparthi who caused Anil Kumar to leave his teaching position because of his opposition to Muddenahalli. This clearly shows that Madhusudan Naidu and his claims have caused division, even in Puttaparthi. Madhusudan is also causing division among Sai devotees around the world through his claims, yet here we are told that it is the Sai Organisation that is causing division. Yet did the Sai Organisation start this process of division? Did the Organisation tell BNNM to go and start a separate trust and start claiming that Swami was living in Muddenahalli? No. Did the Sai Organisation ask Madhusudan Naidu to start making claims that Sathya Sai Baba was speaking to him? No. Did the Sai Organisation tell Madhusudan to say things which cause disunity? No. Then how is it that the Sai Organisation is being blamed by Madhusudan's supporters for causing disunity?

Let's have a look at just a few of the things Madhusudan is saying which have inevitably created disunity. Madhusudan has made several claims that are totally contradicted by Swami's teachings. Firstly, Madhusudan claimed that Sathya Sai Baba, the omniscient Avathar of the age, was forced to leave His body because He made a mistake and took over too much karma from His devotees. Madhusudan claims Sathya Sai Baba had only completed 20% of His Mission but that 'Sukshma Baba', will now complete the final 80%. However Swami said that "Avatars come, fulfil their mission, and disappear". (SSS 42.5). Secondly, Madhusudan Naidu claims that this mistake has necessitated Sathya Sai Baba taking a non corporeal subtle body after death. However in His first recorded discourse in Sathya Sai Speaks, Swami said "The course of an Avatar goes invariably through the same stages. It is the same for every Avatar at all times". (SSS 1.1). Swami then describes these stages - until age 16, leelas, 16-30 leelas and Mahimas etc. There is no mention from Swami about a stage where the Avathar takes on a subtle body to complete His mission due to an error in judgement. These claims have caused division in opinion between devotees, however in the end it is up to individuals as to whether they believe Swami or believe Madhusudan's claims.

Madhusudan's more divisive teachings are elements such as these - while Swami called for unity and asked devotees to never leave the Sai Organisation, Madhusudan Naidu said in Italy in 2015 that if devotees are not being allowed to believe his claims then they should leave the Sai Organisation. In Malaysia last year he replied in answer to a question from one of his followers "Enough of talking only about Sai Organisation, Sai Organisation". He also belittles Sathya Sai Baba and His mission, saying that Sathya Sai Baba only taught primary school level spirituality, that God is within us. It is patently clear from Sathya Sai Baba's teachings that He taught far more than this, and anyone believing Madhusudan's claims can verify this for themselves. Madhusudan also referred to Puttaparthi as merely being a primary school and then said that in Muddenahalli he will now teach his followers 'high school level spirituality. Here is just one of those quotes: "just like little children who don’t know the truth, who are yet to be educated, everyone was admitted into My primary school. That was Puttaparthi", he said on 20/04/15 in Italy.

He claims that Swami has left Puttaparthi and is living in Muddenahalli in a subtle form and his followers repeat this at Muddenahalli, questioning why devotees go to Puttaparthi when Swami is no longer there. More recently Madhusudan claimed (on 20/10/15) that Swami told Easwaramma that He would not leave Puttaparthi as long as He was in the body, however a quick search on YouTube will allow anyone who is interested to watch Swami Himself say that He would NEVER leave Puttaparthi. Regarding the claim about the subtle form, as has already been pointed out earlier, Swami said that the subtle form disintegrates on the death of the physical body. Madhusudan also claims that not everyone can follow him and that those who do are in some way special or chosen. He belittles those who don't believe his claims as being stuck in their heads, while those who do believe in him are following their hearts. These kind of statements are not only bound to cause division, they appear to be intended to cause division, especially those that belittle Sathya Sai Baba and His mission.

But, as we see here, Madhusudan's followers claim that he is not doing anything to cause division and that it is the Sai Organisation which is causing the division. How has the Sai Organisation caused the division? Because they don't believe Madhusudan's claims and put out the kind of warnings that Swami issued though His discourses and in Sanathana Sarathi? If we go back to this example, Swami's own example, whenever these kind of claims arose in the past, Swami opposed them and His discourses are replete with instances of Swami saying that He needs no intermediary and to have nothing to do with those who claim to be His intermediary. Those who have access to back issues of Sanathana Sarathi, please go through them and you will see that, when people came forward claiming to have some special relationship with Swami, or claiming that Swami was giving messages to them or through them for others, or when people went around asking for money in Swami's name, notices were included to remind people that Swami needs no intermediary and not to be taken in by such claims. These notices were placed in Sanathana Sarathi with Swami's approval. All the Sathya Sai Organisation has done is to continue to remind Sai devotees of Swami's own teachings. Yet here we have 'subtle form believers' telling us that the Sai Organisation, by upholding Swami's teachings, is causing division? Who should we believe? Madhusudan Naidu and his claims or our Guru, Bhagawan Sri Sathya Sai Baba?

When we choose to believe someone else instead of believing Swami, we take our faith from Swami and place our faith in that other person. No one should be allowed to replace Swami in our heart, no matter what their background, no matter how close they were to Swami physically or for how long they were with Him. Swami alone is our guru. Swami said: "Love everyone. But do not trust everyone without discrimination. One who puts his trust wholly in others is headed for ruin". (SSS 35.9). Swami's teachings are incredibly precious. Swami said to Hislop that since the time of Krishna, mankind hasn't had the opportunity to have the Lord Himself as their Guru. Swami also told us: "You should have faith in Swami's teachings; love them, adore them and follow them". (SSS 40.22). Before we believe Madhusudan Naidu or his follower's claims, shouldn't we first trust Swami and consult His teachings? Or at least check the claims of Madhusudan against what Swami Himself said? And if we find that the Madhusudan is contradicting Swami, then we have a choice before us - to believe Swami, or to believe Madhusudan. Sai Ram.
--- end Shaun Brown comment ---

My response comment (slightly edited): What a wonderful and clear response! Will any person with Viveka (discrimination) have any more doubts that Muddenahalli group is indeed a divisive force that has created confusion and disunity in the Sathya Sai movement worldwide! The man with Viveka (discrimination) will heed these words of yours, Shaun Brown:
"Before we believe Madhusudan Naidu or his follower's claims, shouldn't we first trust Swami and consult His teachings? Or at least check the claims of Madhusudan against what Swami Himself said? And if we find that the Madhusudan is contradicting Swami, then we have a choice before us - to believe Swami, or to believe Madhusudan."

Thank you so much bro. Shaun Brown for this detailed comment. May I share this comment on my blog and on my Facebook post?

Shaun Brown responded:  Ravi S. Iyer Sai Ram Ravi, yes, very happy for you to share this information. It is important that devotees look first to Swami's words before heeding the words of anyone else. If this helps even one person then I am happy.


  1. Sairam Sir,

    I checked the FB post whose link you've given here.

    I want to share something with reg. to the subtle Baba saying that the earlier physical body had become weak and that is why He took up the subtle body.

    I recently heard this on a talk by Dr. Srikanth Sola.

    One doctor from the Whitefield Super Speciality Hospital had gone to Yajur Mandir sometime in 2010 to discuss something about the hospital with Swami and he wanted to show some papers related to that to Him.

    The doctor offered to go to the table and get the papers but Swami told him that He Himself would get them. Swami coolly got up from His chair, walked normally and went to the table and took the papers. The doctor was stunned.

    As Swami was returning to His chair, some trustee from the Central Trust came into the room and immediately Swami began acting as if He was finding it difficult to walk, etc. And the trustee and the doctor helped Swami to His chair. The trustee even scolded this doctor for making Swami strain and walk.

    You can watch the 5 mins clip here

    So it was all a BIG drama that Bhagawan enacted in the last few years by sitting on the wheel chair and not walking, making everyone believe that His body was weak, etc. And that He needed others' assistance. So I just do not believe that Bhagawan would ever say that His physical body had become weak and that's why He later took up the subtle body.

    Also, I remember one more instance.

    This happened in 2003 in the month of July. After Bhagawan returned to Puttaparthi on 3 June, He had a fall and fractured His hip. The students were seeing Him after almost a month. It was soon after Guru Poornima and Swami had just come walking and there was some discomfort on His face. So Prof. Anil Kumar Kamaraju asked “Swami,
    are You in pain? Swami replied, “Noppi undhi, kani suffering ledhu (Yes, it is paining. But I am not suffering)."

    Bhagawan's physical body might have undergone a lot of pain but He was always above the pain and eternally in bliss. He demonstrated that even in His childhood when the sorcerer at Kadiri put His body to inhuman torture.

    In fact, when someone many years later asked Him why He went through that horrible torture and bore all that, He said "Even after seeing all that fortitude and that miracle of a little boy passing unscathed through all that terror, you are not convinced that I am divine. How then would you have reacted if one fine day I simply
    made the announcement of my Avatarhood? I wanted to make known that I am Divine Stuff, impervious to human suffering, pain, or joy."

    In fact during the last days of Bhagawan when He was in the Parthi Super Speciality Hospital, when a team of expert doctors from Delhi arrived and asked how He was feeling and if He would like to say anything to the doctors, Bhagawan said “Nenu hai-ga unnanu, naku ee noppi ledu – I am perfectly fine, I have no pain.”

    Whom are we kidding? Bhagawan's physical body was Divine from top to toe! He had absolutely no suffering. So I'm sure that it's all cooked up stories saying that Bhagawan in the subtle body said that His physical body had become weak and that's why He took up the subtle body after April 24, 2011.

    1. Thanks Aarthi! Interesting information and view.