Safeguarding against unauthorized use of HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi
Given below are the slightly edited contents of a few recent (in the past few days) Facebook posts I made on the topic of safeguarding against other spiritual group(s) unauthorisedly using the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
Ethical question of Muddenahalli subtle body/light body using name of Puttaparthi Sathya Sai Baba
In a Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10207002748925982, asking questions of somebody who has recently put up a Facebook post of his miraculous experiences with Muddenahalli subtle body/light body, Mr V.R. Ganti raised the following point (and other points too):
Please note that anyone can worship anyone else, including LIGHT BODY and donate as much money as one likes and no one has the right to object the same. However using SRI SATHYA SAI BABA’s name for the above purposes is what really creates the confusion, anguish and the issue that is being faced by many SAI Devotees now.
--- end Mr. V.R. Ganti FB post content extract ---
Ravi: I put up the following comment (main content of comment):
That somebody experienced paranormal power/siddhis of some subtle body/light body in Muddenahalli does NOT bother me at all. Good for the person who experienced such power, I say. Let him enjoy and benefit from the spiritual advise and other advise given too. ..... The BIG ISSUE for me is that the name used by the Muddenahalli subtle body/light body is the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. Is it DHARMIC for such a subtle body/light body and its supporters to use this name without any permission from the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust and/or the close (bodily level) kith & kin of Sri Sathya Sai Baba? There also is a serious question of whether it is LEGAL to do so, even if the exact grounds of the legal challenge may be obscure as such a claim of a subtle body/light body with a chosen communicator may be happening for the first time in Indian legal system history. ..... I think Sathya Sai devotees who are actively involved with this Muddenahalli subtle body/light body matter (in the name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi) must really ponder over the ethical nature of this matter. Is it the right thing to do? Is it the fair thing to do? How would they feel if somebody else started doing some activity using their name without their permission? Would they feel happy about it? Would they not seriously consider legal action against such people?
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Suggest that P.I.L. be filed in Karnataka High Court against MDH for UNAUTHORIZED use of HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba
An exchange from FB post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10207002748925982, is given below:
[name-snipped] wrote:
Yad Bhavam Tad Bhavati. Entha Maatramuna Evvaru Thalachina Antha Maatramey Neevu...
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
It is good that brother [name-snipped] has commented on this post. I have not had the pleasure of knowing him but I have heard good things about him. I also have been given to understand that he acts as a kind-of counsellor to some who want to know more about claimed MDH subtle body/light body and chosen communicator. Apparently brother [name-snipped] has got convinced about claims of chosen communicator & subtle body/light body due to some revelations of personal matters between him and physical form Swami, that were made to him by chosen communicator.
I hope [name-snipped] will continue to comment on the exchanges going on in this post, including what I will be giving below.
Before I get into the main part of this comment, I would like to state my stand on organization and Sathya Sai. Perhaps some official Sai organization members may be upset with my view - I request their kind indulgence.
In a recent private FB chat I was asked, "What is more important- His Message or His Organization?"
My response was:
Very clearly, Swami's message is the VITAL thing. However, the organization, especially for family people, provides a great platform to learn about, practise and share Swami's message. But if somebody is unhappy with the official organization and wants to steer clear of it and practise his/her Sai path individually or with some other group, I believe physical form Swami was fine with that (though organization heads would not publicize such views of Swami). Essentially, Swami and Swami's message simply CANNOT BE LIMITED by any organization, even the official Sai organization.
--- end my response to (one) FB chat question ---
To reiterate, I believe that Shiva-Shakti Swarupa, Kali Yuga Avatar, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba SIMPLY CANNOT BE LIMITED to any single organization (official Sai organization). He is a universal, spiritually mighty phenomenon whose teachings & life can be used as inspirational models by anybody in an individual/family capacity, and/or any organization, whether official Sathya Sai organization or unofficial Sathya Sai organization or organization unrelated to Sathya Sai, anywhere in the world. BTW I was in the past associated with the official Sai organization in Maharashtra, India and the Sai university in Puttaparthi (a total of nearly two decades), but now am not associated with any Sai organization and act in an individual capacity.
OK, now to the main part of my comment. As I thought more about the matter I feel that some well placed Sathya Sai devotees should file a well worded Public Interest Litigation (P.I.L.) in Karnataka High Court about Muddenahalli chosen communicator and claimed subtle body/light body USING the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, WITHOUT, as far as I know, any permission from Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust, Puttaparthi and/or close (bodily ties) kith & kin of Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Let us know what the interpreters & dispensers of the law of the land in India, i.e. the honourable judges of the High Courts/Supreme Court, say about the matter. And, of course, the decision of the honourable High Court in Karnataka on such a P.I.L. will be binding on Muddenahalli chosen communicator and subtle body/light body associated trusts and organizations. [They could then appeal to Indian Supreme Court, of course.]
In terms of time taken for such P.I.L. cases, what I have noticed in recent times, is that many P.I.L. cases at High Court and Supreme Court levels do get taken up quickly (matter of months and not years), and sometimes, if the matter is not too complex, one gets the verdict in a year or two. The very act of filing the P.I.L. and it getting accepted as a serious P.I.L. by the High Court or Supreme Court, usually puts great pressure on any persons doing something illegal which affects a large number of Indians. So, if such a P.I.L. (on unauthorized use of Sri Sathya Sai Baba's name by Muddenahalli chosen communicator and subtle body/light body) filed in Karnataka High Court even gets accepted and viewed seriously, that itself may go a long way in resolution of this matter. I mean, even before the judgement comes in the matter, the process of the High Court looking into the matter, will itself help in resolution of the matter.
Another point is that such a P.I.L., in my understanding, can be filed by a group of Sathya Sai devotees itself, without the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust or any other part of the official Sathya Sai organization being involved in the filing of the P.I.L. Jai Sairam!
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Update on 28th May 2015
Considering the high level of discomfort expressed by some Sathya Sai devotees online to my suggestion of filing P.I.L. in Karnataka High Court, I now think that this may not be an appropriate time for such a move. I think such a move should be considered only if a large number of Sathya Sai devotees feel that the honourable Karnataka High Court should be approached to get its valuable view of the matter. As of now, I think the number of Sathya Sai devotees who seem to be of the view of approaching Karnataka High Court for this matter, seems to be very small.
Therefore I am now of the view that the PIL suggestion should be kept in abeyance (not used, as of now).
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Who will have the legal burden of proof for chosen communicator claim of seeing & hearing subtle body/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi?
If at all the chosen communicator claim of seeing and hearing a subtle/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi does get challenged in a court of law, an interesting question that comes up is: who will have the burden of proof for proving/disproving this claim? Will the plaintiff (party making the complaint also referred to as complainant) have to disprove the chosen communicator's claim OR will the chosen communicator have to prove his claim?
Given the fact that the chosen communicator claims to see & hear an invisible-and-inaudible-to-all-but-him subtle body/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, whose bodily form passed away in April 2011, and that such a claim is truly, truly extraordinary and seems to be unheard of in the history of major religions & major spiritual movements in the world, I would not be surprised if the judge/bench of judges will accept the argument that the burden of proof i.e. burden of giving reasonable/substantial evidence for the claim, lies on the chosen communicator.
I mean, he claims that the subtle body/light body he is seeing & hearing is Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. So I think it is fair to expect him to provide reasonable/substantial evidence for that claim. I wonder what such reasonable/substantial evidence could be, which would be acceptable as valid grounds for such a claim in a court of law in India.
For more on the legal burden of proof readers may visit Cornell University, USA's site here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/burden_of_proof
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Why am I writing so much on Facebook opposing MDH, P.I.L. possibility, and not visiting MDH for direct experience of subtle body
Four long comments of mine from FB post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1622647497951821
Please feel free to skip/browse through the long comments :-).
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Brother [name-snipped], thanks for your comment. My understanding of the teachings of our beloved Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, is that we must oppose such claims of mediums and communicators, and emphasize that Bhagavan's connection is direct heart-to-heart. If your following was a small one it would have been fine - not too much disturbance to mother Sai organization. But now your following has become a SERIOUS THREAT to the UNITY of the Sathya Sai movement worldwide. You may not agree with my view but a lot of Sathya Sai devotees including me think that way.
Your view may be that I (and others like me) should sit back and be silent witnesses and wait for Swami's will to prevail. My view and the view of some other people is that Swami expects us to act as His instruments by opposing such claims which are a THREAT to UNITY of the Sathya Sai movement.
About other people who claimed to be like Swami (I don't think anybody assumed the full name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi) while Swami was in physical body: I don't think they were anywhere close to the THREAT that your following is posing to the Sathya Sai movement. For example, I have never come across discourses of Bala Sai Baba of Kurnool being openly sold in Puttaparthi (outside ashram) as Swami's discourses (Sathya Sai Baba's discourses).
About my posts appearing on your wall, I am sorry if it disturbs you, brother. But I am afraid I will be continuing to do what I see as my duty in investigating the truth of the chosen communicator claims via means that are fully constitutional and fully legal in India. Please do not hesitate to unfriend me as I understand your discomfort with my posts. Even if you 'unfriend' me on Facebook, we can continue to be real life friends. It has been a pleasure to interact with you so far, even though we have very different points of view on MDH matters. Take care, brother. All the best with your spiritual journey to/with SAI.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Brother [name-snipped]: Nowadays I don't have time to watch movies. But who knows maybe I will get free later on to watch the movie you suggested. .... I do not know your background as a Sai devotee. Please note that I have been in the Sathya Sai fraternity in India for over two decades now, and that I have spent over a decade in Puttaparthi with a lot of time in the Sai university dealing with students and former students like brother M. I have made a lot of inquiries about the matters on which I am writing about rather regularly. I prefer not to put out matters on the Internet which are personal - but, believe me, I have received a fair amount of information from various fairly reliable sources about what I write about. It is based on a large picture that I have arrived at the conclusion that yes, brother M, chosen communicator, may have some siddhis/paranormal powers either directly or through a spirit, and that power has so far been largely benevolent. But it is also becoming clearer and clearer to me that if it is a spirit that is communicating with brother M (as against siddhis he himself has acquired) then that spirit, even if it has mind & memory reading abilities and some materialization siddhis, is NOT Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. Today, you may rant against my FB posts and my regular comments on this matter. But don't be surprised if sometime in the future you may thank me for these FB posts & comments....... Mind you, I am not saying brother M is doing this out of evil intentions or crooked intentions. In all probability, brother M has got misled by a powerful but so far benevolent spirit that is masquerading as Sri Sathya Sai Baba. I have arrived at this conclusion after a lot of information gathering from various quite reliable sources, and based on my knowledge of scripture & spiritual writings, as well as opinion of knowledgeable people in these matters.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
[name-snipped]: Response to your point, "All i am saying is if you really think this is all lies proceed it legally and make a so called EXPOSE. Posting on fb everyday is not going to change anything".
1) I am not saying it is "all lies". After a lot of discussion & thinking I came to the conclusion that the key issue here is the usage of the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi for claimed subtle body/light body. Now, all I am saying is that the idea of the court telling us whether that usage is OK or not, permissible or not, is not a TERRIBLE idea. It will not impact any schools or hospitals associated with MDH. If the court does get approached and does rule that MDH cannot use the name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba to refer to MDH subtle body/light body, then I think the main impact will be on its publications and media output and public statements. They may have to use a different name like Sukshma Baba (which is already being used by some MDH supporters, I believe). I repeat, it does not involve any impact to the working of schools, hospitals etc. as well as the activities of chosen communicator & subtle body/light body when done using a name other than that of Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
2) About not posting on FB but going to court straight away: Well, now I am playing a community activist role to discuss the matter thoroughly and debate future action. This involves using social media especially FB, in my case. Going to court with a P.I.L. is not a straight-forward matter. First the community has to be sounded out, and if they like it, then it has to be organized and then the move. And I am using FB as a platform for sharing my views. As I am a retired-from-commercial-work guy and as I find this issue as a very vital matter I am spending a lot of time & energy on it (as my duty to Swami).
3) Further I, and others, are also playing an active role on FB giving our view of the MDH matter. We are doing this so that Sai devotees worldwide who are interested to know about such matters easily find our point of view. Once again, most of us are doing this out of what we perceive to be our duty to Swami.
So you may have to tolerate fair bit of such views from me on FB. Sorry if it upsets you but I have to do what I see as my duty to Swami.
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Ravi S. Iyer Brother [name-snipped]: I have already explained elsewhere why me visiting MDH or personally experiencing subtle body/light body is not relevant to my conclusion that it is not Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. But let me try to give my main points for it below:
What can me visiting MDH do? The maximum is that I may experience that brother M via subtle body/light body can read my mind & its memories, I may experience great happiness and peace and joy ... That will help me conclude that there is a wonderful spiritual power in MDH which feels just like Swami.
But for me to conclude that the spiritual power in MDH is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, the vital matter is the study of subtle body/light body discourses and the actions of chosen communicator & subtle body, and then its comparison with the discourses of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi and the actions of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. I have already done that and arrived at the conclusion that the discourses and actions of claimed subtle body/light body of MDH is different enough from discourses and actions of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, for me to view the spiritual power at MDH to be a different spiritual power which may be appearing as Sri Sathya Sai Baba to chosen communicator.
Now I don't deny your experiences with the spiritual power at MDH. I am happy for you. But I do not accept the claim that it is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi which is the spiritual power behind MDH and MDH chosen communicator.
As you are persistent about your view and perhaps that persistence springs from your spiritual thirst, I feel that I should also share some matters with you, which I had earlier wanted to avoid touching upon. I hope what I will type below will be viewed in the right spirit - you may feel free to disagree with me and dismiss the info. but don't view it as a malicious charge. I am just sharing some info.
Recently I was informed by fairly reliable sources that brother M, the chosen communicator, had met a senior PTP functionary, prior to Swami's hospitalization & Mahasamadhi (maybe even a year or two before Mahasamadhi), claiming that he (brother M) could see & interact with a subtle body Swami! In other words, even when Swami was in physical form in PTP, brother M was interacting with subtle Swami! The senior PTP functionary refused to treat the claim seriously then as we had Swami in physical form with us.
This information reinforces my view that the subtle body/light body that is interacting with brother M is a different spiritual power that appears to brother M as Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi.
BTW the same PTP functionary was met again by brother M after Mahasamadhi with a claim that subtle body Swami was with him (brother M) then (in PTP). The PTP functionary again refused to accept the claim.
Now I am not saying that you should accept whatever I have written above as the gospel truth. It came from reliable sources but it is not established fact.
Further, you may come up with some explanation like too much mind is not good for spirituality, or something else, to stick to your faith in MDH. Actually, I don't want to disturb your faith in MDH. Who am I to do so? Even if you believe it is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi who is now at MDH as subtle body/light body, I don't want to disturb your faith.
My FB posts are aimed mainly at other Sai devotees across the world, who are not sure about these MDH claims, and are looking for information on it. All the best for your spiritual journey, brother. Jai Sairam!
Ethical question of Muddenahalli subtle body/light body using name of Puttaparthi Sathya Sai Baba
In a Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10207002748925982, asking questions of somebody who has recently put up a Facebook post of his miraculous experiences with Muddenahalli subtle body/light body, Mr V.R. Ganti raised the following point (and other points too):
Please note that anyone can worship anyone else, including LIGHT BODY and donate as much money as one likes and no one has the right to object the same. However using SRI SATHYA SAI BABA’s name for the above purposes is what really creates the confusion, anguish and the issue that is being faced by many SAI Devotees now.
--- end Mr. V.R. Ganti FB post content extract ---
Ravi: I put up the following comment (main content of comment):
That somebody experienced paranormal power/siddhis of some subtle body/light body in Muddenahalli does NOT bother me at all. Good for the person who experienced such power, I say. Let him enjoy and benefit from the spiritual advise and other advise given too. ..... The BIG ISSUE for me is that the name used by the Muddenahalli subtle body/light body is the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. Is it DHARMIC for such a subtle body/light body and its supporters to use this name without any permission from the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust and/or the close (bodily level) kith & kin of Sri Sathya Sai Baba? There also is a serious question of whether it is LEGAL to do so, even if the exact grounds of the legal challenge may be obscure as such a claim of a subtle body/light body with a chosen communicator may be happening for the first time in Indian legal system history. ..... I think Sathya Sai devotees who are actively involved with this Muddenahalli subtle body/light body matter (in the name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi) must really ponder over the ethical nature of this matter. Is it the right thing to do? Is it the fair thing to do? How would they feel if somebody else started doing some activity using their name without their permission? Would they feel happy about it? Would they not seriously consider legal action against such people?
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Suggest that P.I.L. be filed in Karnataka High Court against MDH for UNAUTHORIZED use of HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba
An exchange from FB post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10207002748925982, is given below:
[name-snipped] wrote:
Yad Bhavam Tad Bhavati. Entha Maatramuna Evvaru Thalachina Antha Maatramey Neevu...
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
It is good that brother [name-snipped] has commented on this post. I have not had the pleasure of knowing him but I have heard good things about him. I also have been given to understand that he acts as a kind-of counsellor to some who want to know more about claimed MDH subtle body/light body and chosen communicator. Apparently brother [name-snipped] has got convinced about claims of chosen communicator & subtle body/light body due to some revelations of personal matters between him and physical form Swami, that were made to him by chosen communicator.
I hope [name-snipped] will continue to comment on the exchanges going on in this post, including what I will be giving below.
Before I get into the main part of this comment, I would like to state my stand on organization and Sathya Sai. Perhaps some official Sai organization members may be upset with my view - I request their kind indulgence.
In a recent private FB chat I was asked, "What is more important- His Message or His Organization?"
My response was:
Very clearly, Swami's message is the VITAL thing. However, the organization, especially for family people, provides a great platform to learn about, practise and share Swami's message. But if somebody is unhappy with the official organization and wants to steer clear of it and practise his/her Sai path individually or with some other group, I believe physical form Swami was fine with that (though organization heads would not publicize such views of Swami). Essentially, Swami and Swami's message simply CANNOT BE LIMITED by any organization, even the official Sai organization.
--- end my response to (one) FB chat question ---
To reiterate, I believe that Shiva-Shakti Swarupa, Kali Yuga Avatar, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba SIMPLY CANNOT BE LIMITED to any single organization (official Sai organization). He is a universal, spiritually mighty phenomenon whose teachings & life can be used as inspirational models by anybody in an individual/family capacity, and/or any organization, whether official Sathya Sai organization or unofficial Sathya Sai organization or organization unrelated to Sathya Sai, anywhere in the world. BTW I was in the past associated with the official Sai organization in Maharashtra, India and the Sai university in Puttaparthi (a total of nearly two decades), but now am not associated with any Sai organization and act in an individual capacity.
OK, now to the main part of my comment. As I thought more about the matter I feel that some well placed Sathya Sai devotees should file a well worded Public Interest Litigation (P.I.L.) in Karnataka High Court about Muddenahalli chosen communicator and claimed subtle body/light body USING the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, WITHOUT, as far as I know, any permission from Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust, Puttaparthi and/or close (bodily ties) kith & kin of Sri Sathya Sai Baba. Let us know what the interpreters & dispensers of the law of the land in India, i.e. the honourable judges of the High Courts/Supreme Court, say about the matter. And, of course, the decision of the honourable High Court in Karnataka on such a P.I.L. will be binding on Muddenahalli chosen communicator and subtle body/light body associated trusts and organizations. [They could then appeal to Indian Supreme Court, of course.]
In terms of time taken for such P.I.L. cases, what I have noticed in recent times, is that many P.I.L. cases at High Court and Supreme Court levels do get taken up quickly (matter of months and not years), and sometimes, if the matter is not too complex, one gets the verdict in a year or two. The very act of filing the P.I.L. and it getting accepted as a serious P.I.L. by the High Court or Supreme Court, usually puts great pressure on any persons doing something illegal which affects a large number of Indians. So, if such a P.I.L. (on unauthorized use of Sri Sathya Sai Baba's name by Muddenahalli chosen communicator and subtle body/light body) filed in Karnataka High Court even gets accepted and viewed seriously, that itself may go a long way in resolution of this matter. I mean, even before the judgement comes in the matter, the process of the High Court looking into the matter, will itself help in resolution of the matter.
Another point is that such a P.I.L., in my understanding, can be filed by a group of Sathya Sai devotees itself, without the Sri Sathya Sai Central Trust or any other part of the official Sathya Sai organization being involved in the filing of the P.I.L. Jai Sairam!
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Update on 28th May 2015
Considering the high level of discomfort expressed by some Sathya Sai devotees online to my suggestion of filing P.I.L. in Karnataka High Court, I now think that this may not be an appropriate time for such a move. I think such a move should be considered only if a large number of Sathya Sai devotees feel that the honourable Karnataka High Court should be approached to get its valuable view of the matter. As of now, I think the number of Sathya Sai devotees who seem to be of the view of approaching Karnataka High Court for this matter, seems to be very small.
Therefore I am now of the view that the PIL suggestion should be kept in abeyance (not used, as of now).
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Who will have the legal burden of proof for chosen communicator claim of seeing & hearing subtle body/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi?
If at all the chosen communicator claim of seeing and hearing a subtle/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi does get challenged in a court of law, an interesting question that comes up is: who will have the burden of proof for proving/disproving this claim? Will the plaintiff (party making the complaint also referred to as complainant) have to disprove the chosen communicator's claim OR will the chosen communicator have to prove his claim?
Given the fact that the chosen communicator claims to see & hear an invisible-and-inaudible-to-all-but-him subtle body/light body of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, whose bodily form passed away in April 2011, and that such a claim is truly, truly extraordinary and seems to be unheard of in the history of major religions & major spiritual movements in the world, I would not be surprised if the judge/bench of judges will accept the argument that the burden of proof i.e. burden of giving reasonable/substantial evidence for the claim, lies on the chosen communicator.
I mean, he claims that the subtle body/light body he is seeing & hearing is Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. So I think it is fair to expect him to provide reasonable/substantial evidence for that claim. I wonder what such reasonable/substantial evidence could be, which would be acceptable as valid grounds for such a claim in a court of law in India.
For more on the legal burden of proof readers may visit Cornell University, USA's site here: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/burden_of_proof
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Why am I writing so much on Facebook opposing MDH, P.I.L. possibility, and not visiting MDH for direct experience of subtle body
Four long comments of mine from FB post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1622647497951821
Please feel free to skip/browse through the long comments :-).
Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Brother [name-snipped], thanks for your comment. My understanding of the teachings of our beloved Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, is that we must oppose such claims of mediums and communicators, and emphasize that Bhagavan's connection is direct heart-to-heart. If your following was a small one it would have been fine - not too much disturbance to mother Sai organization. But now your following has become a SERIOUS THREAT to the UNITY of the Sathya Sai movement worldwide. You may not agree with my view but a lot of Sathya Sai devotees including me think that way.
Your view may be that I (and others like me) should sit back and be silent witnesses and wait for Swami's will to prevail. My view and the view of some other people is that Swami expects us to act as His instruments by opposing such claims which are a THREAT to UNITY of the Sathya Sai movement.
About other people who claimed to be like Swami (I don't think anybody assumed the full name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi) while Swami was in physical body: I don't think they were anywhere close to the THREAT that your following is posing to the Sathya Sai movement. For example, I have never come across discourses of Bala Sai Baba of Kurnool being openly sold in Puttaparthi (outside ashram) as Swami's discourses (Sathya Sai Baba's discourses).
About my posts appearing on your wall, I am sorry if it disturbs you, brother. But I am afraid I will be continuing to do what I see as my duty in investigating the truth of the chosen communicator claims via means that are fully constitutional and fully legal in India. Please do not hesitate to unfriend me as I understand your discomfort with my posts. Even if you 'unfriend' me on Facebook, we can continue to be real life friends. It has been a pleasure to interact with you so far, even though we have very different points of view on MDH matters. Take care, brother. All the best with your spiritual journey to/with SAI.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
Brother [name-snipped]: Nowadays I don't have time to watch movies. But who knows maybe I will get free later on to watch the movie you suggested. .... I do not know your background as a Sai devotee. Please note that I have been in the Sathya Sai fraternity in India for over two decades now, and that I have spent over a decade in Puttaparthi with a lot of time in the Sai university dealing with students and former students like brother M. I have made a lot of inquiries about the matters on which I am writing about rather regularly. I prefer not to put out matters on the Internet which are personal - but, believe me, I have received a fair amount of information from various fairly reliable sources about what I write about. It is based on a large picture that I have arrived at the conclusion that yes, brother M, chosen communicator, may have some siddhis/paranormal powers either directly or through a spirit, and that power has so far been largely benevolent. But it is also becoming clearer and clearer to me that if it is a spirit that is communicating with brother M (as against siddhis he himself has acquired) then that spirit, even if it has mind & memory reading abilities and some materialization siddhis, is NOT Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. Today, you may rant against my FB posts and my regular comments on this matter. But don't be surprised if sometime in the future you may thank me for these FB posts & comments....... Mind you, I am not saying brother M is doing this out of evil intentions or crooked intentions. In all probability, brother M has got misled by a powerful but so far benevolent spirit that is masquerading as Sri Sathya Sai Baba. I have arrived at this conclusion after a lot of information gathering from various quite reliable sources, and based on my knowledge of scripture & spiritual writings, as well as opinion of knowledgeable people in these matters.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote:
[name-snipped]: Response to your point, "All i am saying is if you really think this is all lies proceed it legally and make a so called EXPOSE. Posting on fb everyday is not going to change anything".
1) I am not saying it is "all lies". After a lot of discussion & thinking I came to the conclusion that the key issue here is the usage of the HOLY NAME of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi for claimed subtle body/light body. Now, all I am saying is that the idea of the court telling us whether that usage is OK or not, permissible or not, is not a TERRIBLE idea. It will not impact any schools or hospitals associated with MDH. If the court does get approached and does rule that MDH cannot use the name of Sri Sathya Sai Baba to refer to MDH subtle body/light body, then I think the main impact will be on its publications and media output and public statements. They may have to use a different name like Sukshma Baba (which is already being used by some MDH supporters, I believe). I repeat, it does not involve any impact to the working of schools, hospitals etc. as well as the activities of chosen communicator & subtle body/light body when done using a name other than that of Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
2) About not posting on FB but going to court straight away: Well, now I am playing a community activist role to discuss the matter thoroughly and debate future action. This involves using social media especially FB, in my case. Going to court with a P.I.L. is not a straight-forward matter. First the community has to be sounded out, and if they like it, then it has to be organized and then the move. And I am using FB as a platform for sharing my views. As I am a retired-from-commercial-work guy and as I find this issue as a very vital matter I am spending a lot of time & energy on it (as my duty to Swami).
3) Further I, and others, are also playing an active role on FB giving our view of the MDH matter. We are doing this so that Sai devotees worldwide who are interested to know about such matters easily find our point of view. Once again, most of us are doing this out of what we perceive to be our duty to Swami.
So you may have to tolerate fair bit of such views from me on FB. Sorry if it upsets you but I have to do what I see as my duty to Swami.
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Ravi S. Iyer Brother [name-snipped]: I have already explained elsewhere why me visiting MDH or personally experiencing subtle body/light body is not relevant to my conclusion that it is not Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. But let me try to give my main points for it below:
What can me visiting MDH do? The maximum is that I may experience that brother M via subtle body/light body can read my mind & its memories, I may experience great happiness and peace and joy ... That will help me conclude that there is a wonderful spiritual power in MDH which feels just like Swami.
But for me to conclude that the spiritual power in MDH is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, the vital matter is the study of subtle body/light body discourses and the actions of chosen communicator & subtle body, and then its comparison with the discourses of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi and the actions of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi. I have already done that and arrived at the conclusion that the discourses and actions of claimed subtle body/light body of MDH is different enough from discourses and actions of Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi, for me to view the spiritual power at MDH to be a different spiritual power which may be appearing as Sri Sathya Sai Baba to chosen communicator.
Now I don't deny your experiences with the spiritual power at MDH. I am happy for you. But I do not accept the claim that it is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi which is the spiritual power behind MDH and MDH chosen communicator.
As you are persistent about your view and perhaps that persistence springs from your spiritual thirst, I feel that I should also share some matters with you, which I had earlier wanted to avoid touching upon. I hope what I will type below will be viewed in the right spirit - you may feel free to disagree with me and dismiss the info. but don't view it as a malicious charge. I am just sharing some info.
Recently I was informed by fairly reliable sources that brother M, the chosen communicator, had met a senior PTP functionary, prior to Swami's hospitalization & Mahasamadhi (maybe even a year or two before Mahasamadhi), claiming that he (brother M) could see & interact with a subtle body Swami! In other words, even when Swami was in physical form in PTP, brother M was interacting with subtle Swami! The senior PTP functionary refused to treat the claim seriously then as we had Swami in physical form with us.
This information reinforces my view that the subtle body/light body that is interacting with brother M is a different spiritual power that appears to brother M as Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi.
BTW the same PTP functionary was met again by brother M after Mahasamadhi with a claim that subtle body Swami was with him (brother M) then (in PTP). The PTP functionary again refused to accept the claim.
Now I am not saying that you should accept whatever I have written above as the gospel truth. It came from reliable sources but it is not established fact.
Further, you may come up with some explanation like too much mind is not good for spirituality, or something else, to stick to your faith in MDH. Actually, I don't want to disturb your faith in MDH. Who am I to do so? Even if you believe it is the same Sri Sathya Sai Baba of Puttaparthi who is now at MDH as subtle body/light body, I don't want to disturb your faith.
My FB posts are aimed mainly at other Sai devotees across the world, who are not sure about these MDH claims, and are looking for information on it. All the best for your spiritual journey, brother. Jai Sairam!
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