Feedback on my book: Autobiography of an Indian Software Techie and Spiritual Aspirant – Part 1
Last updated on 15th Nov. 2019
Part autobio book free open/download links: https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/p/autobiography-of-indian-software-techie.html.
==================================================
An old friend wrote me over email on 8th Nov. 2019 (and was OK with sharing publicly):
Thank you for sending links to your books. I read through "Autobiography of an Indian Software Techie and Spiritual Aspirant – Part 1" with interest. Was sad to know that you had to drop out of M.Sc. due to financial troubles. I remembered meeting your mother several times - in Dombivli and in Andheri; she was always very kind to me. It was also good to read about your journey through Datamatics, BTC, Mastek etc.
I did not like the spirituality-related parts of the book. Apologies.
--- end old friend feedback ---
I responded (slightly edited):
Thanks for taking the time to read my book, and then giving your valuable views on it.
I thank you for being honest about not liking the spirituality-related part of the book. I do appreciate your word 'apologies' as a way to soften the earlier words :-) - that's nice of you - but apologies are not needed at all. I respect your right (and any other reader's right) to disagree, sometimes vehemently disagree, with some (or all) of my writings, though I prefer such disagreement being expressed politely, as you have done.
As a social media writer now, I try to promote an environment where people can politely disagree on matters of faith in God while still being decent and humane towards each other. In this context perhaps you may want to look at a short recent public post of mine: https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2019/10/my-view-india-bharat-is-for-indians-of.html where I state my view: "As an Indian citizen and resident, my view is that India (Bharat) is for Indians of all religions as well as no religion. India today is NOT, and should NOT become, a Hindu rashtra (Hindu nation). It is a country for Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists, Zoroastrians (Parsees) and other religions as well as those who prefer not to be associated with any religion (atheists)."
====================================
A former software industry colleague (referred to as C) shared his feedback on my book over email on 22nd Oct. 2019. Given below is his feedback (he was OK with public sharing) and my response to some parts of it (slightly edited) with my responses being indented and enclosed in square brackets:
C wrote: Dear Ravi,
I have read your book. It is very interesting!
Well done!
[I (Ravi) responded: Dear C, Thank you so much for your kind words. Happy to note that the book interested you.]C wrote: I am very glad and surprised that you served people even when you were in college. I too wanted to do that and volunteered to be a reader to the blind, but I was told that there were no vacancies in my college. I went a couple of times to Cheshire home, but stopped.
[I responded: The NSS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Service_Scheme, provided some academic credits. So partly I was attracted to the academic credits, and partly I think I liked helping others. Perhaps your college did not have the NSS facility then.]C wrote: My parents often told me that the Catholic groups that I used to go to, in India and the USA, never did any works of justice or of uplifting the poor! All they did was praise and worship!
[I responded: I think it was similar for whatever I had seen and experienced in Hindu groups that I directly knew of in the 80s. Of course, I think Mahatma Gandhi promoted the slogan: Manav Seva is Madhav Seva and I am sure there are many organizations in Bombay/Mumbai itself that are associated with such work. But I did not have any direct exposure, as far as I can recall, to such organizations in the 80s.
And in my Brahmin family culture, rituals where the family priest(s) officiate are important events. And those rituals are essentially Vedic praise and worship rituals. Funeral and annual remembrance (shraddha) rituals are special Vedic rituals where we remember those of our parents & ancestors who have passed away. Along with remembrance related ritual there is some praise and worship ritual too. I have been part of such Brahmin family ritual events innumerable times, right from my childhood days till Oct. 2002 when I moved to Puttaparthi.
My practical exposure to service of poor as worship of God was after I associated with Sathya Sai organization in early 1990s. Sathya Sai gave immense importance to service of fellow human being, especially needy human being viewed as form of God (Daridra Narayan), and service done in the spirit of worship of God.]C wrote: I'm happy that you looked after your mother.
Even though my Mum completed 90, she looks after herself and me.
[I responded: Wow! May God continue to shower His Grace on your mother! I am sure there would have been times when you took care of her too but you may not want to mention it and I appreciate that.
One of the issues I faced while writing the autobio is writing about some good things I did. It was not pleasant to do so but I felt the right thing is to truthfully record what I did, as that truth may be helpful to other spiritual aspirants who read my book.]C wrote: I don't watch TV.
[I responded: Great! I had switched off TV for many years. I think that was roughly from 1993 to 2008 or so. Later I got back into TV and now watching news videos via Internet as I wanted to reconnect with the world at large, especially in my role as a social media writer.]C wrote: I am looking forward to reading the second part of your autobiography. Do you work to support yourself?
[I responded: Noted that you look forward to second part of autobio. But I don't know if and when I will get around to it.
As I lead a simple, single, lower middle class life in a rural town in South India, I am able to live within my retirement income. I have been doing that from Oct. 2002 onwards. In other words, no commercial (money earning) work from Oct. 2002 onwards (actually Sep. 2002 onwards with month of Sep. 2002 being spent in preparation for move to Puttaparthi).]==============================================================
Comments provided by Uma Padubidri on Facebook on this book, and my responses to it, are given below. Uma Padubidri was OK with her comments being shared on this blog post.
On Facebook post (friends level access and NOT public access) https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2369982926592647&set=a.1724743561116590, Uma Padubidri wrote on 27th Aug. 2019:
Dear Anna,
Thanks so much for giving me your Autobiography and that too on Krishna Janmashtami ( I'm elated 😊).
Your Book is interesting to read, not boring at all. What I observed is you haven't hidden any facts nor gave a rosy picture of your life's journey.
The one who reads your Autobiography will get to know the 'Real Ravi S. Iyer'
It's very Heart-touching. You are definitely a Survivor.
----
I (Ravi) commented (slightly edited): Sairam sister Uma Padubidri. Thank you very much for your kind words. I am glad you found the book to be interesting.
I tried hard to say the truth, as I perceive it, in this book. One of the main goals of this book is to help spiritual aspirants, especially young spiritual aspirants, to get a truthful picture of my life, including my many human flaws, some of which I continue to have even now. I mean, I am still very much a spiritual journeyman working on improving myself and trying to overcome my human flaws.
And I guess you are right, I do have strong survivor skills due to the life I led 🙂.
----
I (Ravi) wrote: Regarding the survivor skills, I would like to add that essentially the varied circumstances that I have found myself in, in various phases of my life, has made me very adaptable/very adjustable. I think I can learn and come to terms with new circumstances quite quickly and adapt to it.
And, I think, in general, Mumbai life of my days (70s to early 2000s) taught one to be adaptable and adjustable. There were a huge variety of people, social and religious cultures, financial backgrounds from super-rich to beggar, means of transport from luxurious cars to jam-packed trains and buses, neighbourhoods from luxurious (e.g. upper class areas in Peddar Road, Malabar Hill and Juhu) to rather pathetic (e.g. Dharavi slums) etc. that one had to learn to adjust to, and adapt to, if one had to survive and thrive in Mumbai. It may be similar even now in Mumbai, and it may be similar in other big cities in the world like New York City or Los Angeles or Brussels (I have some exposure to these three cities and so have mentioned them).
----
Uma Padubidri wrote on 3rd Sept. 2019 on same FB post:
Ravi S. Iyer Anna, Today I read your Mother's last moments and her conversation with you.
Touched my heart ❤
I too can relate to you because my Parents also thanked me profusely for taking care of them ( lovingly and tirelessly ) few hours before their demise.
It's indeed a 'Certificate of Achievement' for us. And, a 'Form of Blessings' which protects us throughout our Life's Journey.
Because many children are not privileged or do not utilise the opportunity ( due to ego issues, many parents are dumped in old age homes ) to render Service to their Parents.
Anna, my Respect for you has doubled 🙏
----
I (Ravi) responded: Glad you liked that part sister Uma Padubidri. You are doubly blessed as you served both your parents, whereas I served only one! Very happy that your parents too were very happy with you for your service and thanked you profusely! That is the big 'Certificate of Achievement' as well as blessings for us, as you have said.
I think there are many in India who, even today, serve their parents. They don't get written about much and so people don't know. I wrote about it (some may call it self-promotion) and so my Seva towards my mother gets known to more people. I wrote it not to promote myself, but to promote the truth that even in this day & age, one can serve one's parents well, giving them satisfaction and getting their blessings. It is a choice one has to make, as it usually involves significant sacrifice.
About respect for me - please be aware that I have many human flaws but I am a law abiding citizen of India and I try hard not to hurt others unless they hurt me or threaten me.
----
Uma Padubidri wrote: Ravi S. Iyer It's not self-promotion or self-boasting. In an Autobiography, one should be truthful as far as possible. Only then the reader will be pleased 😊
Anna, we all have human flaws. I always make an effort to see and appreciate 'the Good' in fellow human beings.
==============================================================
Comments provided by Ramadas Mannatil on Facebook on this book, and my responses to it, are given below. Ramadas Mannatil was OK with his comments being shared on this blog post.
On https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2545076415708920, Ramadas Mannatil wrote on 18th July 2019:
Ravi S. Iyer Reading now. As and when I read, I may give comments. Your Dad (respects to him) would have been born in 1918, as retirement age was 55 in Railways during 1973. My dad retired from SR in 1979.(55)
----
I (Ravi) responded:
Ramadas Mannattil Interesting info. Thanks. I did come to know later that the retirement age in Railways may have been 55 then. Thanks for confirming it.
Interesting that your dad (my respects to him) retired from SR in 1979. One of my dad's younger brothers, V.M. Vanchiswaran was in South Central Railway, based in Secunderabad.
Do give your comments whenever you feel like.
----
On https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2546020978947797, Ramadas Mannatil wrote on 22nd July 2019:
The best sentence in your autobiography book is "Nee ennai nanna paathai, Da". The "Guruthwam" you got from the blessings of your mum, before her parting. Very few are lucky to look after parents, mainly because of their busy immediate family, wife and children. You are very lucky.
...
I got tears in my eyes after reading that blessing statement of your mum (Pranaams to her soul)
----
I (Ravi) responded:
Ramadas Mannattil - It was not easy to do my Seva of taking care of mother, as I had to make career and other sacrifices for it. Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba through his teachings (discourses & writings) showed me the way to view it as loving Sadhana and that made it a spiritually uplifting experience. Thanks for your comments. Jai Sai Ram!
...
Ramadas Mannattil - I should add, like I think I wrote in the book, my mother's statement is the greatest certificate I got in my life. ... Further, I am quite sure it is my mother's blessings that have played a vital role (along with, of course, the grace of Bhagavan) in me being able to lead a largely spiritual and religious oriented life in Puttaparthi and gain some spiritual insights as well.
I hasten to say that I am NOT perfect and still fall prey to Kama & Krodha. So my spiritual journey is certainly an ongoing one.
----
==============================================================
An old friend wrote over email (slightly edited; was OK with sharing) on 7th July 2019, about this book:
I have gone through your book in parts.
It is an elaborate account of your journey with many details. As mentioned by you some time back, some people want to know the details and hence you have included several details.
One suggestion: Some of the readers may be interested in the important aspects. For such audience there should be a way to go through the book in a shorter time and get the key aspects. There are many ways to do this in the existing book. Here are a few:
a) Highlight / Bold / Underline the text that is important
b) Have small boxes embedded in relevant pages that presents the key points
c) Begin the chapter with a Box containing all the key points
These are some of the approaches I have come across in certain books. If possible, you may want to think about this.
Overall the narrative is very good and so is the English!
----
I responded (slightly edited):
Thank you very much for your detailed response and thoughts.
...
The book is a verbose-kind of rendering and a hasty one.
...
[About changes to book to highlight important aspects in limited reading time:]
Very interesting suggestions. Thank you very much.
I don't know how much traction this book is going to have. As of now, it is rather limited to family & friends of mine who are reading it/have read it. I would not be surprised if that's how it continues to be in future. In other words, only people who I know and whom I tell about the book may show interest and read it.
If the book does get traction, and future editions of this book are considered by me (or by anybody else who chooses to do so, as my (text) content of the book is freely reusable), I would like the above points to be considered then.
...
[About the kind words about narrative and English:]
Oh! Thanks.
---
==============================================================
There seems to have been some indirect criticism of my 'spiritual aspirant' book writing even though I still have human flaws. Given below are relevant extract(s) from my associated post, https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2019/06/my-view-about-some-possible-criticism.html, dated 2nd June 2019, responding, in part, to this criticism.
A big learning for me, especially over the past few years as I have done extensive reading of articles/books & viewing of videos on spiritual masters & religious leaders and spiritual & religious movements, including some traps they fell into, is the sexual hypocrisy thing. This early 21st century period that we live in, is an extraordinary period of higher levels of truth and transparency ***within religious and spiritual movements*** never ever experienced in previous centuries and millennia. This is not to say that these religious and spiritual movements are completely truthful and transparent today. I am just saying that they are forced to adhere to significantly higher levels of truth and transparency now than in earlier centuries and millennia.
One of the biggest failings in today's religious and spiritual movements in general is sexual hypocrisy. Some of those who are revered as celibate masters and spiritual leaders are charged with sexual abuse crimes and convicted to prison terms in so many countries of the world, including India!
I admire the Christian Protestant movement which arose as a reaction against the failings of the then Catholic church, as it (Protestant movement) has a much more healthy approach towards human sexuality. As I have understood it, even today the Roman Catholic church does not allow for married male priests! They have to be celibate or rather they have to claim to be celibate with some engaging in sex in secret. The latter is pathetic sexual hypocrisy! How can such priests be good spiritual leaders!
The Christian Protestant church allows for married priests called pastors, if I got that correctly. I find that to be a really good thing. It reduces this horrible problem of sexual hypocrisy.
Hinduism has a very positive view on such matters, IMHO. Rama and Krishna avatars were both married and had children. So when the divine Lord took human form they, as Rama and Krishna Avatars, were not celibate. That makes it so clear to Hindus that sex is not an evil thing. What is problematic is uncontrolled sex! Ravana desired another man's wife (Rama's wife, Sita) which led to him being killed by Rama, and his whole army being defeated with many of his own clansmen being killed.
I think what disgusts people in this early 21st century is sexual hypocrisy, especially when spiritual masters and religious leaders engage in it. I too get very put off by sexual hypocrisy. And I am perfectly OK with spiritual masters who may be married (and so engage in sex without any sexual hypocrisy).
BTW as far as my own view is concerned on my level of spiritual progress, I am very much in a spiritual aspirant category with my own fair share of human flaws. So there is no question of me claiming to be spiritually enlightened. I have had some spiritual insights though but I am still very much a spiritual journeyman rather than somebody who has reached the goal/destination.
One important reason why I am self-publishing my part autobiography is to share my partial journey of life, including some part of my spiritual journey, with ****interested spiritual aspirants****. I have gained enormously, especially in the days when I was a newbie spiritual aspirant, from reading about the journey of other spiritual aspirants. So I felt it is my duty, in a way, to share my spiritual journey so far with ****interested spiritual aspirants****, including newbie spiritual aspirants.
Now some may be critical of me for having self-published such a book. They will say this man is promoting himself! Some may say that if a person has not conquered all his human flaws he/she should not write such a book!
Criticism is natural for such endeavour, especially in spiritual groups. There is a lot of jealousy and back-biting in spiritual groups. And there is a lot of gutter-inspector and garbage-mongering stuff with attempts to throw garbage on such book writers. So some may say that I have no right to write a book on my spiritual journey so far because I have still not conquered all my human flaws of Kaama (desire in general, uncontrolled lust in particular), Krodha (anger), Lobha (greed), Moha (infatuation/attachment), Mada (pride) and Maatsarya (jealousy).
They are entitled to their views. But I disagree with them. Some of the books of spiritual aspirants that I have gained enormously from reading, have covered in detail the challenges faced by these spiritual aspirants as they tried to conquer their human weaknesses. It showed me that such human challenges are common, and that the spiritual path is a battle against such human weaknesses. And that having these human weaknesses does not mean that one is ***not fit*** for the spiritual path. Many masters have reached their spiritual goals by battling with and eventually overcoming such human weaknesses.
===============================================================
A former Wang ITRC (International Telecommunications Research Centre), Brussels, Belgium employee that I have got recently re-connected to on LinkedIn wrote on 3rd June 2019 (slightly edited; she was OK with public sharing):
Hey Ravi, I finally got to reading the part of your book dealing with your Belgian stay. I really liked it. It brought back a lot of memories. Even --name-snipped-- and I got mentioned! I'm happy to read that we made your stay a bit easier and that we succeeded in making you feel a bit more at home in Belgium.
--- end edited feedback ---
Note that my assignment at Wang ITRC, Brussels and stay in Belgium was in 1985-86.
I responded (slightly edited):
Hey --name-snipped--, I am so glad to receive your feedback on the Belgian part of my part autobio ebook. I am very happy that you "really liked it". You and --name-snipped-- were very helpful to me then who was a 23 year old Indian out on his first foreign trip. I take this opportunity to again thank you and --name-snipped-- for that kindness and friendship, which helped my stay in Belgium to be a very interesting and happy one, and something that I have been able to write about in this publicly available free download book (ebook version).
----
==============================================================
Feedback on part of the book from an Indian tech entrepreneur Kartick Vaddadi
I (Ravi) wrote to Kartick Vaddadi: You may want to read the part in the book about my experience of joining a start-up in a key position. The section is titled, "Excitement of Joining a Start-Up In a Key Position" and is from Pages 113 to 134, and deals with the period June 1990 to Nov. 1992. That gives one view of the environment in SEEPZ, India then for software export company startups.
Later pages have short coverage of some other efforts I made as a consultant to explore domestic (Indian) market software development opportunities (I did not become any company's employee after Nov. 1992; I was on my own, a businessman even if it was a one-man show). But that is mixed with some spiritual stuff which may turn you off. So you may want to stop reading at page 134.
----
Kartick Vaddadi responded in part (slightly edited), on or around 24th May 2019:
It's interesting... btw I also under-estimated marketing... I'd identify marketing as the biggest risk to some startups even today. A guy from --snip-- said to a current-day tech. startup entrepreneur, "Just as you've built this tech, so did 10 people before you. But you won't be able to get the word out to people who want this app. So you will fail" Interesting how some things change but many others remain the same even after 10 or 20 years. [June 1990 to Nov. 1992 was over 25 years ago, a quarter century ago.]
The other point you made — competing with bigger players — is again the same. In my case, we're competing with Google, Apple, Samsung, Huawei, etc.
Regarding your point that you were not desirable to get married to because you were working for an unknown startup, isn't it interesting how fashions change... when I started working at Google, people would almost universally go Wow when I answered "Where do you work?" In the past 5 years, that reaction reduced significantly. Now when I say I run my startup, I get the wow reaction... Startup founders are now well regarded.
The other point is how messy startups are... still the same
Other people not having necessary skills, like the top man's marketing skills not being good enough... People getting stressed... --snip-- ... startups are a mess
Before I read the extract, I had prepared to read about a significantly different world, but it's very much like the startup world I know today... The human, organisational, skill-related, hurt, stress, disagreements, finger-pointing... all the same :)
...
(From my startup work), I learnt a lot, grew a lot, became lot more mature...
----
I (Ravi) responded: Interesting feedback. Thanks. .... Change is the only constant in lives now but yet, some fundamental things don't change!
----
==============================================================
An ex-Datamatics and ex-Mastek colleague and a fellow ex Dombivlikar who is now based in the USA wrote over email (slightly edited) on 18th May 2019 about my part autobio book (and was OK with public sharing):
Enjoyed reading.
----
I responded (slightly edited):
Thanks --name-snipped--. I presume you are referring to the Datamatics section of the book. Glad that you enjoyed reading it.
----
He responded (slightly edited):
No, I wasn't referring to the Datamatics section alone. I was just mildly curious overall and could relate to some of the things and have different view point on other things. For example, when you mentioned you liked walking, I could verify that in my data bank - I remember you came one day to my old house in Dombivili just like that and said let us walk and see what is there in and around Thakurli area. You used to live in the eastern side of Dombivli and towards Mumbai whereas I was located in the western side of Dombivili away from Mumbai. You appeared more of a Bombay guy (polished, English speaking) and I was a Dombivilikar (Marathi speaking). We had met a couple of times through G, so I was pleasantly surprised to see you. [G was a common friend of ours. G and I both were studying B.Sc. at Ruia college which is how we got to know each other.]
I would hardly step out myself. I think I could simply sit and let thoughts keep my mind busy because I did not need to read or had just started reading at that time. Therefore, usually it used to be hard for me to do any conversation. However, I was blessed to welcome knowledge whether it came in the form of irrefutably hard arguments of a brutally honest mindset or a compelling point of view of a soft spoken person ready to turn into a respectful critic. All I had to do was to ask a question and let the other guy let me have a free tour of their thoughts while they wander around the physical world searching God knows what :-). But reading your story, overall I think perhaps our generation was brought up in a world where everyone was inescapably soaked in spiritual aspects of life and left more or less completely clueless of practical aspects of life such as how to study; what to study; why to study; how to earn bread let alone dealing with situations of Indira Gandhi's assassination or the serial bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Interestingly though, except for the rich spiritual cover we enjoyed, people all over the world seem to be more or less as confused as we were then in one or the other way. I might sound insensitive but it could be this cluelessness that people, be it in Mumbai or New York, get back to their "life" right after a disaster hits them. You can also see it as a case of - everyone around the world gets the sunny days and the stormy nights and you just have to make the best out of it.
I would hardly step out myself. I think I could simply sit and let thoughts keep my mind busy because I did not need to read or had just started reading at that time. Therefore, usually it used to be hard for me to do any conversation. However, I was blessed to welcome knowledge whether it came in the form of irrefutably hard arguments of a brutally honest mindset or a compelling point of view of a soft spoken person ready to turn into a respectful critic. All I had to do was to ask a question and let the other guy let me have a free tour of their thoughts while they wander around the physical world searching God knows what :-). But reading your story, overall I think perhaps our generation was brought up in a world where everyone was inescapably soaked in spiritual aspects of life and left more or less completely clueless of practical aspects of life such as how to study; what to study; why to study; how to earn bread let alone dealing with situations of Indira Gandhi's assassination or the serial bomb blasts in Mumbai in 1993. Interestingly though, except for the rich spiritual cover we enjoyed, people all over the world seem to be more or less as confused as we were then in one or the other way. I might sound insensitive but it could be this cluelessness that people, be it in Mumbai or New York, get back to their "life" right after a disaster hits them. You can also see it as a case of - everyone around the world gets the sunny days and the stormy nights and you just have to make the best out of it.
And yes, I don't want to keep you wondering where I had a different viewpoint. And does it even matter? Well, for what it is worth ... You could very well be right on the money as far as the specific situation you were in, however, I had been through similar situations; seen others in; and tried to help people in those situations, and therefore, think that it is not necessary that your assessment is a general scenario. I am referring to you mentioning poor variable naming convention used by the programmers at Mastek. As I said, you could absolutely be right in judging that it could be due to the training in vernacular medium, but I see the root cause being the clarity in problem solving vigor. I think it is more of the case where people need to be "shown" so that they develop in those areas. In a lecture on Pascal, I did not focus on why he was explaining the concept of how to insert a new node in a linked list and missed the basic concepts of pointers. But while learning C, I learnt that again and wondered how did I miss that. I saw the same thing happening with a guy coming from Hyderabad to Pune office of Mastek. He was under a strict lady supervisor who had written him off without even identifying the problems he was facing. His problem was pointers and so much so that he would try to use arrays to implement linked list. I had seen people using good variable naming convention and yet writing a C code that ran into 66-page long function! In fact, you will find root cause in our education system itself. We learnt Math till second year of B.Sc. How often were we encouraged to "test" the solution/answer we would come up once we "solved" a problem? So if I don't realize the importance of proving then I should not be surprised if I don't prove but just give some solution that "works". Once you are moulded like that by the education system, you bring your habits to workplace. That said, I know how meticulous you were at work I am sure you must have changed the way they worked at Mastek - you deserve a pat!
Sorry, I couldn't shorten my response.
----
I responded (slightly edited):
Thank you for your detailed and very interesting response. By the kind grace of God, I am now in a position where I can allot significant time to details on topics of my interest. I think your detailed response contributes significantly to some of the matters I have covered in my part autobio.
Regarding the Mastek (mostly and presumably) vernacular language educated programmer team, my comments were specific to that team and not about Mastek programmers in general. Mastek surely then had sophisticated technical guys who were also fluent in English (irrespective of whether their initial education was in vernacular medium or English medium). The Mastek, Pune systems software development team in particular were very sophisticated technically (with you being one of them), and surely would not have had any English language related variable and function naming issues. The particular team that I was referring to in the book were, if I recall correctly, quite junior and not so sophisticated technically then (now they may be tech. bosses somewhere).
Thanks again for your detailed and very interesting response.
-----
Shri Nagesh Nallappa wrote over email on 15th May 2019 was OK with public sharing (slightly edited):
Many thanks for forwarding your autobiography. I finished going through it, in one go.
It does provide a very interesting reading. It was more absorbing to me because our tastes match largely. And I have had and still have very good friends from Dombivili. My Chithappa -Mr. K (names abbreviated) used to live in Ramnagar (now no more). In that home, we had a very good maid - by name V, more like a family member. We used to visit that house frequently. Mr. K used to work for the Customs.
My humble observations are - (not worth taking seriously, pls)
Your list of authors – Shakespeare, GB Shaw, MK Gandhi, RK Narayan are my favourites too.
Names missing or might have escaped my attention, are : Milton, Mark Twain
Poets – Wordsworth, Lord Tennyson, Robert Frost
These indicate how well-read and a seasoned academic you are.
(Would suggest reading – An Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard by Thomas Gray, in which Gray captures the ultimate realities of life in a beautiful way). Kindly do not miss this, if you have not already read it. I remember my Gr. pa would not allow me to play unless I memorized a stanza and recited to him (not mechanically, but with emotions).
Following are some of the interesting anecdotes in your book -
Your interest in Cricket, attraction towards Bollywood movies, songs, Rafi Saheb (his funeral was perhaps the largest attended thus far, despite torrential rains on that day!)
Entry into Datamatics, overseas travels, colleagues' influence, were very well described.
Your observation that unless you serve a recognized corporate house, girls may not consider you....
Your dilemma - to marry and settle down in family life on one side and pulled by the urge to pursue spiritual path, on the other!!
I too was fortunate to be under the guidance of Mr. MB Rai. He had come to Saiprem, Vashi, some years ago, for some workshop. Very endearing leader.
And, IIRC, IMHO are certain abbreviations I just learnt by going through your book.
You had a wonderful journey and rightly abandoned yourself at the Feet of Bhagawan Baba.
Superb writing, Ravi. Did enjoy every bit of it.
Jai Jai Sri Sai Ram!
--- end proposed review to be shared publicly ---
My response:
Thank you so much Nagesh sir for your in-depth review.
I don't recall reading: An Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard by Thomas Gray. I will surely read it and get back to you on it. [Just saw that its available on the net here: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44299/elegy-written-in-a-country-churchyard.] Amazing how your grandfather instilled the wisdom of this poem into you, when you were young, by training you to recite stanzas of it with emotion! You, sir, are very fortunate to have had such a great in-house teacher (your venerable grandfather).
I don't think I have read any works of Milton though, of course, I had read about him as a great author even in my student days. I have enjoyed reading Mark Twain's books - I have mentioned Mark Twain's name on page 243 in the Appendix under blog post titled, "Why I was very happy to see US President Obama as Chief Guest at India's Republic Day function, ". [Long sentence from pages 242-243: I must have read tons of such books over the late 70s and 80s, from authors like James Truslow Adams (The Epic of America, http://www.amazon.com/EpicAmerica-James-Truslow-Adams/dp/1931541337), Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, to Mark Twain to Robert Prisig (Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance), Joseph Heller (Catch-22) to Issac Asimov (Foundation Trilogy), Douglas Adams (Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy) to Arthur Hailey, Robert Ludlum, James Hadley Chase, Mario Puzo (Godfather), Louis L'Amour etc. besides some poetry of Walt Whitman, Edgar Allan Poe and others. ]
I guess I am reasonably well read but I have to say that I am NOT an academic. In India, under UGC/AICTE norms (UGC/AICTE are the top academic bodies regulating vast majority of science, commerce, arts higher education institutions in India, excluding elite IITs and IISc), an academic is somebody who publishes research papers in academic journals and academic conferences (excluding junior positions of Teaching Assistant and Asst. Professor for which clearning UGC NET is enough). By the kind grace of the Lord, I have been largely spared from such academic research work. My stint in Indian Computer Science and Information Technology academia was primarily as an industry knowledge expert and I was given Honorary Faculty/Visiting Faculty designation in the deemed university that I offered free service in (Sai university/SSSIHL). Honorary Faculty/Visting Faculty is not viewed as an academic designation. So I am a former software industry expert (over 18 years in software industry), who offered free Visiting Faculty type services in Indian academia for over 9 years, and perhaps a well-read guy on matters dealing with life in general other than software industry matters. But, I repeat, I am NOT an academic.
Thanks again sir for your in-depth review and kind words. I enjoyed reading your review.
Jai Sai Ram!
----
==============================================================
On my blog post, https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2019/05/free-ebook-version-released.html, a person wrote on 13th May 2019: "sir i want the other parts too. enjoyed the first part".
I responded: Glad you liked the first part. Noted that you want the other parts too :-). But don't know if and when I will get around to that. Thanks.
==============================================================
Feedback on my part autobio book from a former Sai university (SSSIHL) student that I have taught
Sairam Sir,
I have read part of the book from the pdf, planning to buy the same.
Really your wisdom comes from the life experiences you have gone through both in your personal life and professional life...I can relate to your industry experience now being in the industry for the past 6 years.
I know you have gone through a lot in your personal life, but after reading parts of the book, I really admire you for being what you are after going through so many difficulties.
I pray to Swami to give you strength and blessings!
Thank you!
--- end feedback ---
Ravi: I responded: Nice words brother --name-snipped--! Thank you. ... Jai Sai Ram!
==============================================================
Given what I know now, would I have acted differently in the post-1984 period of my life?
A question may prop up in the minds of some readers of my book: Autobiography of an Indian Software Techie and Spiritual Aspirant – Part 1. Given what I know now, would I have acted differently in the post-1984 period of my life?
My response:
Today I know that I made some significant mistakes in my life post 1984. For example, I was too ambitious to join Boshu Technics with the software company dream that I had. I mean, this was India, not USA. And I lacked the financial and family stability that is vital before one gets into a software export company entrepreneurial mode. Even though I was not a part-owner, the role I played was very much like an entrepreneur, except for the vital investment/financial part. So even if I did not personally lose money, I came under severe emotional pressure when the business was not earning enough revenue to pay salaries and other expenses. I mean, I was not protected from this emotional pressure. I still can remember the tensing of my stomach muscles which I could observe due to my yoga practice then, as I would worry about lack of business revenue in Boshu Technics!
So I surely would not have taken up the Boshu Technics software manager job, if I had known then what I learned later. I would have instead spent more time to understand and operate within my family limitations, the Indian social and business scene limitations, and other limitations. And I would have focused on learning real-life marketing (not marketing books/theory alone) and cultivating business contacts in software export field before I took on such a position.
But then I would not have had the great insights into business and life that Boshu Technics experience gave me. I would not have lost some of the illusions I had about myself, my abilities and the Indian scene then.
Today I tend to go with the view that that was my destiny. I had to go through those churns and get beaten and learn. Perhaps that was essential preparation for the far bigger challenges in spiritual endeavour, where one has to even conquer the fear of death and fear of all kinds of worldly life challenges including Shakuni poison tactics against one caused by jealousy and physical violence intimidation. While I never had to face direct physical violence, spiritual and religious literature of most, if not all, spiritual and religious traditions, has many martyrs who even gave up their very life rather than giving up their faith and their spiritual and religious traditions!
Bhava Bhaya Harna is one of the terms used in bhajans which I think means Lord who removes fear of the world (worldly life and death).
------
==================================================================
An old friend and an ex Datamatics colleague wrote over email (slightly edited) on 9th May 2019, and was OK with public sharing:
I was able to glance thru your time till Mastek
I really appreciate your memory of this time in so much details....were you taking notes all along? Even I could relive a part of my life while reading it
What really saddened me was to read about the unfair share (its my assessment) of hardships and pain that you have gone thru. In our so many meetings, you never gave out a clue! But in hindsight, I think you came across as most matured among most of us, and I know the reasons behind it, but only now!!! I can only salute a indomitable soul like that of yours.
We all magnify our trivial daily problems as if its the end of the world for us, but it only takes (a meeting with) someone of your stature (to) realize how foolish we have been.
----
I responded (slightly edited):
About whether I took notes all along: :-). No, no notes. But as I lead a reclusive retired life now, I had the luxury of time to dig deep into my memories. Quite an amazing thing - our brain and how at least some incidents of decades in the past can be brought back to the fore with some effort, conscious and unconscious.
About him reliving a part of his life while reading it: I am so glad to know that. I hope you too will write a memoir. I would love to read your life story. It is a great thing to pass on to next generations in the family.
----
About last two paras in his feedback given above:
Arre baap re! [Bombay/Mumbai Hindi]
I just somehow struggled through with love and understanding of family, friends and colleagues. The guidance of elders and inspiration from reading lives of great spiritual masters as well as worldly achievers who overcame far greater odds, also helped in a big way.
And I should also say that I did not feel much sorrow then. I just took it as a challenge to fight and overcome, and laugh and joke and be as happy as one can be under the circumstances. Very thankfully, I did not fall into a negative emotions trap of believing that I ***deserved*** better. Perhaps I believed in Karma then too, but subconsciously. Some years later in mid 1990s perhaps, a Naadi reader told me about my difficult youth period, that I struggled due to paap karma (sins) I had committed in past life/lives. I don't know how true his reading was. But I would not be surprised if some of my financial and other challenges (and that of others in my family) were somehow associated with some Karmic reaction for sins committed in past life/lives.
And yes, those challenges made me mature much faster. In particular, I learned about the importance and value of money, and I learned about how dangerous it was to get deeply into debt (as it was my father's debt that ate into his Railways officer retirement benefits and caused our family's serious financial challenges after he retired). You may not believe me but I have never taken a credit card! I use only Debit cards. That's the fear of deep indebtedness that was created in me, and which I still have, due to my father's serious debt problem which put the entire family through the grinder.
Now that I have lived for over 16 years in rural India, in a drought-prone economically backward district of Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh, I realize that whatever problems I had in my financially challenged childhood and early youth, fade into insignificance in front of the challenges faced by the poor in this rural district of India. And today they are much better off than they were in the 70s and 80s, thanks to India's economic growth to which you and I as software techies along with other software techies of India have made significant contributions.
So my financially challenged childhood and early youth in 70s & 80s in Bombay, was nothing compared to what most of my contemporaries in Anantapur district would have endured then.
----
=========================================================
Note: The rest of this post given below is not related directly to feedback on my part autobiography book, and the discussion spills over to various other topics. Readers who are interested only in feedback for the part autobiography book may please skip reading the rest of the post below.
Given below are some comments from my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2484296885120207, associated with some of the feedback on this blog post:
In response to a comment, I wrote:
About the twain meeting: I see so many Western people having a mix of West and East in their lives, like us who too have a mix of East and West in our lives. So I do think the twain has met for many people of both East and West, who try to take the good of both East and West, and try to drop the not-so-good of both East and West.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
My humble view, --name-snipped--, based on study of work of enlightened spiritual masters, and on some glimpse-experiences (glimmer of experiences), is that the intellectual approach based on data and theory that is the bedrock of science, breaks down when it comes to matters beyond nature.
As Dr. Francis Collins (geneticist and current director of NIH, USA) argues superbly, science is a fantastic tool to study and understand nature (natural world phenomena). But when one goes beyond natural world phenomena, science is not that great a tool.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
Well, the issue is how science defines nature. What is nature to science is what scientists talk about. It needs to be objectively observable and even measurable. Then it comes into the realm of science. At least that's how I understand it.
If you are interested and have not read Dr. Francis Collins' views on this, I can dig it up and share it with you. He is a medical scientist (I am a (retired) technologist who studied science in college but was never a scientist in practice).
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
Strong views bro. --name-snipped--. Thanks for your views. ... I was using the term nature in the context of science. Nature has other meanings too, for sure.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I think it is appropriate to add Dr. Francis Collins' views on nature (as viewed by science) and limitations of the tool of science.
Given below are extracts from my blog post: Francis Collins – The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief, Caltech. 2009 – Transcript, https://iami1.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/francis-collins-the-language-of-god-a-scientist-presents-evidence-of-belief-transcript/
[Dr. Francis Collins:] Dawkins uses science as a core of his argument. Trying to demonstrate that in the absence of scientific proof of God’s existence the default answer should be that there is no God.
But of course, there is a problem here. [Screen shows: Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative. — G.K. Chesterton.] One of the problems is as Chesterton points out, the assertion of a universal negative, which is a daring dogma indeed. The other problem is a category error. If God has any significance in most religions, God has to be, at least in part, outside of nature, not bound by nature. Pantheists might be an exception but most other religions would certainly agree that God is not limited therefore by nature itself. Science is. Science really is only legitimately able to comment on things that are part of nature and science is really good at that. But if you are going to try to take the tools of science and disprove God, you are in the wrong territory. Science has to remain silent on the question of anything that falls outside of the natural world.
[Screen shows: TIME magazine cover, God vs. Science.] Dawkins and I had a debate about this in TIME magazine, which is still up on the web, if you want to go and look at it. And basically (we) went back and forth about a number of the issues, but this was an interesting part because I really challenged him about how it was possible from a scientific perspective to rule out categorically the presence of God. And if you read the interview, at the end, he does say, well, he couldn’t on a purely rational basis exclude the possibility of a supernatural being. But it would be so much grander and more complicated and awesome than anything humans could contemplate that it surely must not be the God we were all talking about (laughter). And I wanted to, you know, jump up and shout, Hallelujah, we have a convert, but I didn’t (laughter).
--- end extract ---
Ravi: I have been using the word 'nature' in the context in which scientists like Dr. Collins use it. Note that one of the top scientific magazines/journals in scientific literature is called 'Nature'.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Hmm. You use very strong words. I have had extensive mail interactions with a few very good people who are top scientists and disbelievers in God. I value their views and have enormous respect for them.
But you are entitled to your views - I disagree with some of your harsh characterisation (e.g. Satanic) of atheist scientists as a group - some may be bad but we should not tar all with the same brush. But we can agree to disagree on this one.
----
I wrote:
I must add here that a few years ago (after I was blogging about God & Science including the Dr. Collins' talk transcript given above), I had some exchanges with a leading scientist based in USA who is a great guy, I think, and does good to the world through his awesome work. But he does not have faith in God and is very clearly on the Dawkins side of the argument and NOT on the Collins side.
He is totally into "hard science". He shared incidents of leading disbeliever-in-God scientists of the past like Richard Feynman (if I recall correctly) who would challenge some fields which called themselves as sciences but which he referred to as pseudo-science or worse.
Exchanges with this top scientist gave me the hard science view of things. Frankly they view all this parapsychology "sciences", as pseudo-science.
Further, they worry about such pseudo-sciences watering down the superb methodology of hard science as a time-tested way of acquisition of knowledge and understanding of the (material) world. So they ***zealously*** guard the portals of hard science, which are the top science magazines and journals (e.g. Science and Nature), from dilution by what they view as pseudo-science. Note that there are many journals on what these top scientists view as pseudo-science but they simply don't pay attention to them. E.g. the field of parapsychology which they just refuse to accept as (hard) science.
I think Collins' approach is a good one, given the reality on the ground. I understand that approach to be: Don't expand the scope of the word, science. But show its limitations, given the currently accepted definition of (hard) science by top scientists.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Has money corrupted science research? Perhaps. I don't know enough to have an informed opinion.
But I did study a part of Indian and, to a lesser extent USA, Computer Science and Information Technology academia as part of my eklavyasai.blogspot.com activism work in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that a weird form of paper-publication research at the expense of teaching and perhaps at the expense of genuine research advances in CS & IT, is part of the sad culture of many parts of Indian CS & IT academia.
It is paper publication count/points that is a key factor for UGC/ACITE regulated Indian academics career growth. So many Indian CS & IT academics have a laser like focus on that and do not give that much importance to teaching and genuine CS & IT research and innovation.
I tried to do my bit by blogging extensively on it and doing some activism to highlight problems and suggest changes. But I ran against a solid wall. Top UGC/AICTE academics who sit in powerful policy making positions are utterly, utterly unaccountable. I did not get even one response to my many mails to them.
MHRD funds UGC/AICTE and so by pounding on their doors via emails and phone calls, I got some response. But I was served a superb bureaucratic block! An under-secretary (lowest level of bureaucrat I am told) sent me a big document as a response to my complaints & suggestions for improvement about poor teaching of software development in Indian CS & IT academia that is regulated by UGC/AICTE (excludes elite IITs). He sent the document by postal mail! It was a surprise that the document reached me as I had not given my full postal address but had mentioned Puttaparthi. The postman recognized my name and brought it to me!
That document had complaints of others to MHRD which was mainly about fees and reimbursement and that sort of thing! The message was clear - MHRD does this sort of student complaint resolution. My stuff of improving teaching was not MHRD's responsibility. I tried to call up the under-secretary. When he came on the line, he was surprised that I had called him up! He asked me to respond in writing!!!
I gave up!
I realized that to bring change in UGC/AICTE one needs political power that through Minister of HRD forces UGC/AICTE top academics to ***respond*** to complaints/suggestions made by activists like me. Otherwise these top academics are utterly, utterly unaccountable to the general public.
I was not interested in getting involved in Education ministry politics as I don't think I can do that now. So essentially my blog and activism on that front ground to a virtual halt.
Now I want to record all of this in a free ebook. This may, I repeat may, help some other activist in future who is in a position to get involved in MHRD politics and force top UGC/AICTE academics to answer the questions raised and opine about the suggestions made. ... On the other hand, the ebook may be unnoticed and get consigned to some virtual grave :-). That's not in my control. If the latter happens, I am fine with that too. I would have done my duty to the software development field that nurtured me and got me the worldly comforts and position that I am in now.
So I think one should do one's bit to improve ethics in science. Science & Technology are not going to go away. They are a very, very powerful force.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Those of us who can tune in to our intuition/inner voice and be saved from disaster or be helped in some other way, are fortunate people.
But science & technology cannot be dismissed away as unimportant things. The very platform of Facebook where we are having this discussion was made possible by science & technology.
Science & technology have surely improved the quality of my life and that of most of my generation among friends and family, as compared to previous generations. Yes, our generation has also lost some things which were enjoyed by previous generations. So science & technology have not been an unqualified blessing. They have some negatives too.
But I have the choice to use science & technology or not. I mean, if I don't want to use mobile phone, computer, or even electricity and LPG - I surely can do so. I choose NOT to do so as I find mobile phone, computer, electricity and LPG to be helpful to me.
The ideal case may be to have a good blend of science & technology along with intuition and good spiritual/human values. I think we should try to contribute our bit to achieving that end. I try to do that. Thanks.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - I think greed is the biggest problem in the world today. The most terrifying thing I have experienced and read about in my entire adult lifetime has been the 2007-08 USA and then global financial crisis. And ***greed*** was the main issue that created it. Predatory lending practices was one of the major problems leading to many USA people failing to repay loans and having their properties foreclosed. If I recall correctly, that started the panic. And the complex derivative financial products hid the underlying risks. Nobody knew what the hell was happening. Later, when I read accounts of what happened at top echelons of USA government then, I was in an absolute daze. If I had known about it while it was happening, I would have panicked bigtime, as my entire retirement plan was at risk of getting blown up to bits and I would have had to start commercial work (for earning livelihood) again! Even though my financial stuff is all India based, the problem was massive and threatened all financial systems closely tied to USA. So Indian financial system also could have gone for a horrible toss.
I think the biggest achievement of the presidency of Barrack Obama was to resolve that crisis and get the world out of it. Now, over a decade later, the world is not so dependent on USA financial system. Then it was all tied up to it.
Are biological/medical fields out of control and becoming a threat to humanity's well being instead of contributing to humanity's well being? I don't know enough to answer such a big question.
But surely there have been major problems in the recent past. The opioid crisis in the USA is one example of how even an advanced country got into some terrible issues. If one reads Vandana Shiva's articles and views, it paints a very harsh picture of the negatives of pesticides and GM foods. I don't know what is the truth. I don't have the time to get into this complex field and arrive at a view.
But I am very happy that somebody like Vandana Shiva is out there fighting for accountability from pesticide manufacturers and arguing against pesticide use, and challenging GM food. I think in such cases dealing with direct human well being, ultimately the matter will go to courts of law who, hopefully will hear both sides and force the truth to be shared with people and then arrive at a decision.
And then there is the big issue of medical insurance industry practices! Let me not get into that as this will then become a book ... :-) BTW ***the preface*** of George Bernard Shaw's play, The Doctor's Dilemma, shows that some medical greed/livelihood issues are at least a century old. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctor%27s_Dilemma_(play) : The extensive preface to the play points out that there is another dilemma: poor doctors are easily tempted to perform costly but useless (and in the best case harmless) operations or treatments on their patients for personal gain. "Could I not make a better use of a pocketful of guineas than this man is making of his leg?" This was reportedly inspired by the behaviour of a prominent Ear Nose and Throat specialist in London who had developed a simple and almost harmless operation to remove the uvula. This did not benefit any of his patients but made the surgeon a great deal of money.
--- end wiki extract ---
I read the book (and the lengthy preface) when I was in college, if I recall correctly. It made a big impression on me. If you have not read it and are into following medical insurance industry abuses and medical private practice abuses, you may want to read it.
But such issues are not limited to Biological sciences/medical sciences. How about Boeing 737 Max? The software made the plane go down even when the pilot was desperately and repeatedly trying to get the plane up! That's what seems to be the issue. Ralph Nader the famous consumer activist lost a relative on one of the crashes. He wants to file a criminal suit against Boeing!
I think the reality of human society is that greed and bad are always there. What we need are better policing and better punishment (as that acts as a deterrence for other would-be bad guys) of abuse by science & tech., by industry, by banks etc. I liked the way the USA govt. is breathing down the necks of doctors and pharma industry fellows who linked up together to overprescribe opioids leading to many innocent patients getting hooked to opioids. I think that's the way forward. Hold the bad and greedy and unethical guys accountable no matter how reputed or big shot a scientist, technologist, financial wizard, doctor etc. they may be.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - The history of the world is replete with moneyed people controlling political leaders whether in relatively newbie democracies or older monarchy systems. Note that monarchs got their power through military victories either of conquest or at least of defense against invaders. And such war requires huge amount of money. Therefore the moneyed people's support was critical to monarchs as well.
I think this is just the reality of human society. Industry and business leaders acquire great wealth and through that great wealth comes great power which they use to control political leaders.
But as their unethical and bad practices start negatively impacting lives of people, at some time they get so unpopular that there is a public backlash against them. At that time, even political leaders shun them as otherwise their political careers would be at risk.
I think that's what has happened in the case of USA govt. action against opioids abuse associated pharma industry people and medical practitioners.
I would prefer to hope and do my bit for such activism that eventually brings positive change.
What is the alternative? Get into dark despair and fall into apocalyptic 'world is going to collapse' thinking? Some do that, and some even make money from it by talking about the coming apocalypse and then hawking products which will help those prepared for the apocalypse survive.
I am not comfortable with that sort of dark despair and apocalypse approach. I do my bit to help improve things within my many limitations and pray to God. Beyond that, I leave it to destiny. Even if apocalypse does happen then, I would have at least done my bit, within my many limitations, to contribute to avoiding it.
And I have cast my lot with that of common humanity, as against elite survivors who prepare for apocalypse survival. If apocalypse does come and sweep common humanity away in it, I would rather get swept by it along with common humanity with the satisfaction that I tried what I could to contribute to avoiding the apocalypse.
Satire is fantastic for laughs and at showing brutal reality. But usually satire does not propose solutions to the problems. While satirists are important to highlight the bad in society, it is problem solvers who are the really great people as they at least attempt to tackle the problem and make things better.
F.D. Roosevelt comes across to me as one such great man of the 20th century. He fought the Great Depression in the 1930s in USA and then steered the Allies to victory over the monstrous and dark Nazis and Japanese imperialists. That ushered in a great Post World War II period where people like you and me have enjoyed material prosperity and so have been able to explore other aspects of life, which would have been utterly unthinkable for previous generations in our families (with some exceptions perhaps). At least in my case, previous generations of my family could not have even dreamed of retiring from commercial work at 40 (even if unmarried) and then focus on pursuing interests like spirituality and also do activism and writing like I do now.
I mean, my father's generation and some previous generations, were born in Hindu kingdom of Travancore which relied on British East India company and later British Raj military forces for protection from around 1789 (in 1789 the British intervened on behalf of Travancore during the Mysorean invasion of Travancore; a formal alliance treaty was signed between the British (East Indian Company) & Travancore in 1795)! The public conversation that we are having on Facebook is something most of them would not have dared to do as there would be some unpleasant consequence for them then!
And I think we need to thank the leadership of FDR followed by Harry Truman, at least to some extent, for this free life that we are leading now, which was not possible for most, if not all, of earlier generations of my family and perhaps your family too.
----
Note: The rest of this post given below is not related directly to feedback on my part autobiography book, and the discussion spills over to various other topics. Readers who are interested only in feedback for the part autobiography book may please skip reading the rest of the post below.
Given below are some comments from my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2484296885120207, associated with some of the feedback on this blog post:
In response to a comment, I wrote:
About the twain meeting: I see so many Western people having a mix of West and East in their lives, like us who too have a mix of East and West in our lives. So I do think the twain has met for many people of both East and West, who try to take the good of both East and West, and try to drop the not-so-good of both East and West.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
My humble view, --name-snipped--, based on study of work of enlightened spiritual masters, and on some glimpse-experiences (glimmer of experiences), is that the intellectual approach based on data and theory that is the bedrock of science, breaks down when it comes to matters beyond nature.
As Dr. Francis Collins (geneticist and current director of NIH, USA) argues superbly, science is a fantastic tool to study and understand nature (natural world phenomena). But when one goes beyond natural world phenomena, science is not that great a tool.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
Well, the issue is how science defines nature. What is nature to science is what scientists talk about. It needs to be objectively observable and even measurable. Then it comes into the realm of science. At least that's how I understand it.
If you are interested and have not read Dr. Francis Collins' views on this, I can dig it up and share it with you. He is a medical scientist (I am a (retired) technologist who studied science in college but was never a scientist in practice).
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
Strong views bro. --name-snipped--. Thanks for your views. ... I was using the term nature in the context of science. Nature has other meanings too, for sure.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I think it is appropriate to add Dr. Francis Collins' views on nature (as viewed by science) and limitations of the tool of science.
Given below are extracts from my blog post: Francis Collins – The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence of Belief, Caltech. 2009 – Transcript, https://iami1.wordpress.com/2012/08/10/francis-collins-the-language-of-god-a-scientist-presents-evidence-of-belief-transcript/
[Dr. Francis Collins:] Dawkins uses science as a core of his argument. Trying to demonstrate that in the absence of scientific proof of God’s existence the default answer should be that there is no God.
But of course, there is a problem here. [Screen shows: Atheism is the most daring of all dogmas, for it is the assertion of a universal negative. — G.K. Chesterton.] One of the problems is as Chesterton points out, the assertion of a universal negative, which is a daring dogma indeed. The other problem is a category error. If God has any significance in most religions, God has to be, at least in part, outside of nature, not bound by nature. Pantheists might be an exception but most other religions would certainly agree that God is not limited therefore by nature itself. Science is. Science really is only legitimately able to comment on things that are part of nature and science is really good at that. But if you are going to try to take the tools of science and disprove God, you are in the wrong territory. Science has to remain silent on the question of anything that falls outside of the natural world.
[Screen shows: TIME magazine cover, God vs. Science.] Dawkins and I had a debate about this in TIME magazine, which is still up on the web, if you want to go and look at it. And basically (we) went back and forth about a number of the issues, but this was an interesting part because I really challenged him about how it was possible from a scientific perspective to rule out categorically the presence of God. And if you read the interview, at the end, he does say, well, he couldn’t on a purely rational basis exclude the possibility of a supernatural being. But it would be so much grander and more complicated and awesome than anything humans could contemplate that it surely must not be the God we were all talking about (laughter). And I wanted to, you know, jump up and shout, Hallelujah, we have a convert, but I didn’t (laughter).
--- end extract ---
Ravi: I have been using the word 'nature' in the context in which scientists like Dr. Collins use it. Note that one of the top scientific magazines/journals in scientific literature is called 'Nature'.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Hmm. You use very strong words. I have had extensive mail interactions with a few very good people who are top scientists and disbelievers in God. I value their views and have enormous respect for them.
But you are entitled to your views - I disagree with some of your harsh characterisation (e.g. Satanic) of atheist scientists as a group - some may be bad but we should not tar all with the same brush. But we can agree to disagree on this one.
----
I wrote:
I must add here that a few years ago (after I was blogging about God & Science including the Dr. Collins' talk transcript given above), I had some exchanges with a leading scientist based in USA who is a great guy, I think, and does good to the world through his awesome work. But he does not have faith in God and is very clearly on the Dawkins side of the argument and NOT on the Collins side.
He is totally into "hard science". He shared incidents of leading disbeliever-in-God scientists of the past like Richard Feynman (if I recall correctly) who would challenge some fields which called themselves as sciences but which he referred to as pseudo-science or worse.
Exchanges with this top scientist gave me the hard science view of things. Frankly they view all this parapsychology "sciences", as pseudo-science.
Further, they worry about such pseudo-sciences watering down the superb methodology of hard science as a time-tested way of acquisition of knowledge and understanding of the (material) world. So they ***zealously*** guard the portals of hard science, which are the top science magazines and journals (e.g. Science and Nature), from dilution by what they view as pseudo-science. Note that there are many journals on what these top scientists view as pseudo-science but they simply don't pay attention to them. E.g. the field of parapsychology which they just refuse to accept as (hard) science.
I think Collins' approach is a good one, given the reality on the ground. I understand that approach to be: Don't expand the scope of the word, science. But show its limitations, given the currently accepted definition of (hard) science by top scientists.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Has money corrupted science research? Perhaps. I don't know enough to have an informed opinion.
But I did study a part of Indian and, to a lesser extent USA, Computer Science and Information Technology academia as part of my eklavyasai.blogspot.com activism work in the past. There is no doubt in my mind that a weird form of paper-publication research at the expense of teaching and perhaps at the expense of genuine research advances in CS & IT, is part of the sad culture of many parts of Indian CS & IT academia.
It is paper publication count/points that is a key factor for UGC/ACITE regulated Indian academics career growth. So many Indian CS & IT academics have a laser like focus on that and do not give that much importance to teaching and genuine CS & IT research and innovation.
I tried to do my bit by blogging extensively on it and doing some activism to highlight problems and suggest changes. But I ran against a solid wall. Top UGC/AICTE academics who sit in powerful policy making positions are utterly, utterly unaccountable. I did not get even one response to my many mails to them.
MHRD funds UGC/AICTE and so by pounding on their doors via emails and phone calls, I got some response. But I was served a superb bureaucratic block! An under-secretary (lowest level of bureaucrat I am told) sent me a big document as a response to my complaints & suggestions for improvement about poor teaching of software development in Indian CS & IT academia that is regulated by UGC/AICTE (excludes elite IITs). He sent the document by postal mail! It was a surprise that the document reached me as I had not given my full postal address but had mentioned Puttaparthi. The postman recognized my name and brought it to me!
That document had complaints of others to MHRD which was mainly about fees and reimbursement and that sort of thing! The message was clear - MHRD does this sort of student complaint resolution. My stuff of improving teaching was not MHRD's responsibility. I tried to call up the under-secretary. When he came on the line, he was surprised that I had called him up! He asked me to respond in writing!!!
I gave up!
I realized that to bring change in UGC/AICTE one needs political power that through Minister of HRD forces UGC/AICTE top academics to ***respond*** to complaints/suggestions made by activists like me. Otherwise these top academics are utterly, utterly unaccountable to the general public.
I was not interested in getting involved in Education ministry politics as I don't think I can do that now. So essentially my blog and activism on that front ground to a virtual halt.
Now I want to record all of this in a free ebook. This may, I repeat may, help some other activist in future who is in a position to get involved in MHRD politics and force top UGC/AICTE academics to answer the questions raised and opine about the suggestions made. ... On the other hand, the ebook may be unnoticed and get consigned to some virtual grave :-). That's not in my control. If the latter happens, I am fine with that too. I would have done my duty to the software development field that nurtured me and got me the worldly comforts and position that I am in now.
So I think one should do one's bit to improve ethics in science. Science & Technology are not going to go away. They are a very, very powerful force.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - Those of us who can tune in to our intuition/inner voice and be saved from disaster or be helped in some other way, are fortunate people.
But science & technology cannot be dismissed away as unimportant things. The very platform of Facebook where we are having this discussion was made possible by science & technology.
Science & technology have surely improved the quality of my life and that of most of my generation among friends and family, as compared to previous generations. Yes, our generation has also lost some things which were enjoyed by previous generations. So science & technology have not been an unqualified blessing. They have some negatives too.
But I have the choice to use science & technology or not. I mean, if I don't want to use mobile phone, computer, or even electricity and LPG - I surely can do so. I choose NOT to do so as I find mobile phone, computer, electricity and LPG to be helpful to me.
The ideal case may be to have a good blend of science & technology along with intuition and good spiritual/human values. I think we should try to contribute our bit to achieving that end. I try to do that. Thanks.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - I think greed is the biggest problem in the world today. The most terrifying thing I have experienced and read about in my entire adult lifetime has been the 2007-08 USA and then global financial crisis. And ***greed*** was the main issue that created it. Predatory lending practices was one of the major problems leading to many USA people failing to repay loans and having their properties foreclosed. If I recall correctly, that started the panic. And the complex derivative financial products hid the underlying risks. Nobody knew what the hell was happening. Later, when I read accounts of what happened at top echelons of USA government then, I was in an absolute daze. If I had known about it while it was happening, I would have panicked bigtime, as my entire retirement plan was at risk of getting blown up to bits and I would have had to start commercial work (for earning livelihood) again! Even though my financial stuff is all India based, the problem was massive and threatened all financial systems closely tied to USA. So Indian financial system also could have gone for a horrible toss.
I think the biggest achievement of the presidency of Barrack Obama was to resolve that crisis and get the world out of it. Now, over a decade later, the world is not so dependent on USA financial system. Then it was all tied up to it.
Are biological/medical fields out of control and becoming a threat to humanity's well being instead of contributing to humanity's well being? I don't know enough to answer such a big question.
But surely there have been major problems in the recent past. The opioid crisis in the USA is one example of how even an advanced country got into some terrible issues. If one reads Vandana Shiva's articles and views, it paints a very harsh picture of the negatives of pesticides and GM foods. I don't know what is the truth. I don't have the time to get into this complex field and arrive at a view.
But I am very happy that somebody like Vandana Shiva is out there fighting for accountability from pesticide manufacturers and arguing against pesticide use, and challenging GM food. I think in such cases dealing with direct human well being, ultimately the matter will go to courts of law who, hopefully will hear both sides and force the truth to be shared with people and then arrive at a decision.
And then there is the big issue of medical insurance industry practices! Let me not get into that as this will then become a book ... :-) BTW ***the preface*** of George Bernard Shaw's play, The Doctor's Dilemma, shows that some medical greed/livelihood issues are at least a century old. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Doctor%27s_Dilemma_(play) : The extensive preface to the play points out that there is another dilemma: poor doctors are easily tempted to perform costly but useless (and in the best case harmless) operations or treatments on their patients for personal gain. "Could I not make a better use of a pocketful of guineas than this man is making of his leg?" This was reportedly inspired by the behaviour of a prominent Ear Nose and Throat specialist in London who had developed a simple and almost harmless operation to remove the uvula. This did not benefit any of his patients but made the surgeon a great deal of money.
--- end wiki extract ---
I read the book (and the lengthy preface) when I was in college, if I recall correctly. It made a big impression on me. If you have not read it and are into following medical insurance industry abuses and medical private practice abuses, you may want to read it.
But such issues are not limited to Biological sciences/medical sciences. How about Boeing 737 Max? The software made the plane go down even when the pilot was desperately and repeatedly trying to get the plane up! That's what seems to be the issue. Ralph Nader the famous consumer activist lost a relative on one of the crashes. He wants to file a criminal suit against Boeing!
I think the reality of human society is that greed and bad are always there. What we need are better policing and better punishment (as that acts as a deterrence for other would-be bad guys) of abuse by science & tech., by industry, by banks etc. I liked the way the USA govt. is breathing down the necks of doctors and pharma industry fellows who linked up together to overprescribe opioids leading to many innocent patients getting hooked to opioids. I think that's the way forward. Hold the bad and greedy and unethical guys accountable no matter how reputed or big shot a scientist, technologist, financial wizard, doctor etc. they may be.
----
In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):
--Name-snipped-- - The history of the world is replete with moneyed people controlling political leaders whether in relatively newbie democracies or older monarchy systems. Note that monarchs got their power through military victories either of conquest or at least of defense against invaders. And such war requires huge amount of money. Therefore the moneyed people's support was critical to monarchs as well.
I think this is just the reality of human society. Industry and business leaders acquire great wealth and through that great wealth comes great power which they use to control political leaders.
But as their unethical and bad practices start negatively impacting lives of people, at some time they get so unpopular that there is a public backlash against them. At that time, even political leaders shun them as otherwise their political careers would be at risk.
I think that's what has happened in the case of USA govt. action against opioids abuse associated pharma industry people and medical practitioners.
I would prefer to hope and do my bit for such activism that eventually brings positive change.
What is the alternative? Get into dark despair and fall into apocalyptic 'world is going to collapse' thinking? Some do that, and some even make money from it by talking about the coming apocalypse and then hawking products which will help those prepared for the apocalypse survive.
I am not comfortable with that sort of dark despair and apocalypse approach. I do my bit to help improve things within my many limitations and pray to God. Beyond that, I leave it to destiny. Even if apocalypse does happen then, I would have at least done my bit, within my many limitations, to contribute to avoiding it.
And I have cast my lot with that of common humanity, as against elite survivors who prepare for apocalypse survival. If apocalypse does come and sweep common humanity away in it, I would rather get swept by it along with common humanity with the satisfaction that I tried what I could to contribute to avoiding the apocalypse.
Satire is fantastic for laughs and at showing brutal reality. But usually satire does not propose solutions to the problems. While satirists are important to highlight the bad in society, it is problem solvers who are the really great people as they at least attempt to tackle the problem and make things better.
F.D. Roosevelt comes across to me as one such great man of the 20th century. He fought the Great Depression in the 1930s in USA and then steered the Allies to victory over the monstrous and dark Nazis and Japanese imperialists. That ushered in a great Post World War II period where people like you and me have enjoyed material prosperity and so have been able to explore other aspects of life, which would have been utterly unthinkable for previous generations in our families (with some exceptions perhaps). At least in my case, previous generations of my family could not have even dreamed of retiring from commercial work at 40 (even if unmarried) and then focus on pursuing interests like spirituality and also do activism and writing like I do now.
I mean, my father's generation and some previous generations, were born in Hindu kingdom of Travancore which relied on British East India company and later British Raj military forces for protection from around 1789 (in 1789 the British intervened on behalf of Travancore during the Mysorean invasion of Travancore; a formal alliance treaty was signed between the British (East Indian Company) & Travancore in 1795)! The public conversation that we are having on Facebook is something most of them would not have dared to do as there would be some unpleasant consequence for them then!
And I think we need to thank the leadership of FDR followed by Harry Truman, at least to some extent, for this free life that we are leading now, which was not possible for most, if not all, of earlier generations of my family and perhaps your family too.
----
Comments
Post a Comment