Feedback on my book: Who am I? I am I - Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation
Last updated on 25-March-2020
Given below are review (feedback) comments on my book 'Who am I? I am I - Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation'.
Ebook version is available for free download here: https://iami1.wordpress.com/consolidated-blog-content-document/ (short link: http://bit.ly/whoami-iami ).
Paperback version can be bought here: https://www.amazon.in/Who-Ultimate-Existential-conversation-iami1-wordpress-com/dp/164650349X. Other paperback sale page links are given here: https://iami1.wordpress.com/printed-blogbook/.
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Mr. Jeff Grant is a former film director and now professional writer who lives in London, UK. This is his blog: https://besonian.wordpress.com.
For more about him and his experiences and views about Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, please see my posts:
* British filmmaker Jeff Grant corroborates Aug. 2019 Sanathana Sarathi article paragraph about his mid 1970s film capturing Sathya Sai Baba's materialization of a necklace, though film is lost now, https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2019/12/british-filmmaker-jeff-grant.html, 31st Dec. 2019
* British filmmaker Jeff Grant's 2011 blog posts about profound impact of his mid 1970s experience of Sathya Sai Baba's spiritual aura and charisma, https://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2020/01/british-filmmaker-jeff-grants-2011-blog.html, 6th Jan. 2020, last updated on 11th Jan. 2020.
I had sent Jeff a printed copy of this Who am I? I am I ... book. Extracts from his email below are in the context of him having read parts of the book.
Jeff Grant wrote on 29th Feb. 2020 (slightly edited; Jeff Grant was OK with public sharing of his views):
I've now had a chance to take a good look at your book. As you suggested, I dipped into it here and there a number of times, so I think I've got a pretty good feel now for it.
From the start, I must be completely honest with you and say that I find these sorts of rational/intellectual discussions - which clearly have not changed one iota since I was at Oxford many years ago - about the existence or otherwise of God - whoever and whatever that might be - to be, in the end, futile. In the first place, trying to convince people the like of Dawkins of anything other than what he believes is a waste of time. He is not in the least interested in whether or not such an entity as God exists; he 'knows' that it doesn't and is therefore interested only in putting forward his own views and in attempting to convince others of the rightness of those views. In the second place and more importantly - people such as him make what is to me a fundamental, cardinal error - they assume (they can have no proof) that there is absolutely nothing in the universe that is not a potential subject of knowledge. That, I'm sure, is not the case. For me - and for others who have written about this - knowledge is essentially of the mind; whereas the essence of life and living, love, compassion etc. - and therefore God, whoever or whatever you conceive that to be - are not of the mind and cannot be 'understood' - they just are and are immutable. Turn your mind on them in order to 'understand' and they are gone. I am totally with Planck when he says that man will never 'understand' the mystery of life and living because he - man - is part of the mystery he is trying to understand. Or, as I've put it myself somewhere my blog - trying to find and examine the secret of life (God) is like using the beam of the torch to find the torch. Or - in what I believe is a Hindu saying - it's like trying to get the thief to surprise himself in the act. I do not believe there is anything outside consciousness. There's a famous story about Einstein and Bohr together one night and looking up at the moon. Einstein is reputed to have pointed to the moon and said, "Are we really saying that if we were not here looking at it, the moon wouldn't be there?" To which Bohr's response is said to have been, "How would you prove it is?" In other words - you can't.
I know, deep within my own self, that whatever God is, it's there. I would not ever attempt to convince another. That knowing within me is deeper than knowledge. If I were to try and 'understand' it I would lose sight of it. It's there in every one of us - but so often hidden under stultifying layers of intellect and rationality. And I believe that is the main reason the world is in the chaotic state it is now - the mind, the intellect, reason - a la Dawkins - are in the ascendant, with the result that we are losing sight of who we, in essence, are.
Ravi - having said all that, I feel I should offer an apology because that is not so much a comment on your book as a part expose of my own feelings, prompted by reading it. I hope you don't mind my saying this, but I'd forget about people like Dawkins. And in the words of the Bible - 'Be still and know that I am God." It's there, within you. I often think of one of the incidents I wrote about in my blog about Baba (Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba). Early one quite cold morning, I took a walk through the ashram. I came across about two hundred people, mostly women, sitting cross-legged on the ground outside Prasanthenilium, waiting there in the hope of getting a glimpse of Baba. And sure enough, suddenly he came out. He looked at those waiting and he called out to them, in English, "What are you waiting for?" One of the women, her eyes alight, spoke up. "We are waiting to see God." "If you want to see God," replied Baba, "look at yourselves."
Thank you for giving me the opportunity of reading your book. I've spoken to you from my heart. I hope it comes across that way.
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I responded on 29th Feb. 2020 (slightly edited):
Thanks a ton Jeff for your heartfelt views.
These words of yours resonate with my views (though my views may be slightly different): "For me - and for others who have written about this - knowledge is essentially of the mind; whereas the essence of life and living, love, compassion etc. - and therefore God, whoever or whatever you conceive that to be - are not of the mind and cannot be 'understood' - they just are and are immutable."
The initial part of my book having the chapters "I am I" and "Divine revelation gems from Chandogya Upanishad: Chapter 6 (Dialogue between Uddalaka and Svetaketu)", I think are either in line with your views above or at least, not in disagreement with them.
The following chapters which form the bulk of the book, deal with the God & Science conversation in our times.
Some young science and technology men and women (guys and gals) in India, and much more in Europe and USA, get carried away by the money & power of science & technology and revere atheist-scientist preachers like Dawkins. These youngsters will not easily accept words of mystics like Sathya Sai Baba as having powerful deeper existential truths. But they will not reject words of top scientists like Max Planck and Francis Collins. And in India, if they are Hindu, they will have respect for Hindu scripture like Chandogya Upanishad which I referred to in an earlier chapter of the book.
The God & Science conversation part of the book is squarely aimed at helping youngsters who get swayed by scientist atheist-preachers like Richard Dawkins, to get a more balanced view of the matter and not blindly follow these atheist-preachers.
In particular, the objective is to help these youngsters be aware that there are scientists & technologists ***today*** like Dr. Collins who are rigorous scientists & technologists and are believers in God. The objective is to let these youngsters know that following a career of science and technology does not mean that you have to ditch belief in God and become an atheist. You can have both - science & technology and belief in God.
Thanks again for your valuable, frank and heartfelt comments.
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Jeff wrote back on 5th March 2020 (slightly edited):
I'm grateful to have had the opportunity of these email exchanges with you. Although you and I express things in different ways, I have no doubt that we are both coming from much the same place. Indeed, if we are totally serious about these matters - which both of us assuredly are - there is only one place to be coming from!
I do wish you well with your mission to convince those younger people of the existence of God. I find it a very interesting proposition. But myself, for personal reasons, would not go about it in that way. To me, 'belief' is an odd word. It implies acceptance without actually knowing. And why one would do that, I've never been clear. The Christian faith asks of one the same thing, along with that other strange word - 'faith'. Which itself implies belief. Believe, they tell you, and then you will come upon the truth. Which to me, I have to say, is back to front and profoundly misleading.
This may sound awful to you (!) but personally I don't 'believe' in anything. I do however 'know' that That - call it God, call it what you will - exists and that it's with me every second of my life. Indeed, I have part in it - as do we all. So coming back to your young people, I would approach them from a direction I suspect they may be more amenable to, in this context, than comparative reasoning. And that is, via those things which cannot be described, analysed and categorized. The beauty of a sunset for example (and I've seen some stunning ones in India), the look deep in the eyes of a child, the beauty in the song of a bird or the petals of a Spring flower. Science has no language for beauty, for love, compassion - for the very things by which we measure the value of our lives and without which our lives are meaningless. With young people I'd try to get them to recognize, beneath the overworked layers of their own mind/intellects which traditional 'education' has conditioned in them, those eternal aspects of their own inner selves which are also the links which connect us all, irrespective of creed or nationality. And that, I would then call 'God' or whatever. Or call it whatever they like, whatever fits with how each individual perceives it.
There - I've given you again, unasked, more of my own personal views! I hope you'll find them at least interesting. Indeed, use them too (with the same caveats as above) if you feel they might help your cause.
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My response to Jeff Grant on 25th March 2020 (slightly edited):
Firstly Jeff, my apologies for the delay in responding to your very interesting message.
Thanks for your kind words. I too am grateful to you that we have had this very interesting conversation.
A lot of what you wrote in your response resonates very well with me (like with your earlier response). You put it very well: beauty of a sunset, the look deep in the eyes of a child ... these connect to deeper aspects of our inner selves. Getting young people to recognize it and value it as something related to divine/God/inner self/'That' ... , along with their traditional education, is surely a good thing.
But you also raised some points about belief. You wrote, "It implies acceptance without actually knowing." You further wrote: "Believe, they tell you, and then you will come upon the truth. Which to me, I have to say, is back to front and profoundly misleading."
Now you have taken a path where you have chosen to go by your own experience in life and not given much value, if any, to belief. I too walked that path till, in my late twenties/early thirties, I faced some big challenges in life which made me expand my spiritual views and practice from spiritual/ethical philosophy and life experience alone to (additionally) belief/faith in Divine power to intervene (help) in human life and which divine intervention is typically requested/initiated through prayer. In particular, I started reading Hindu scriptural accounts of Avatars like Krishna and Rama, with belief that they are mostly true accounts though some details may be a little inaccurate. These accounts show how these divine figures responded to prayer of devotees and helped them, sometimes through their supernatural powers, besides ridding the world of evildoers and reinforcing faith of people in Dharma (ethical life). That brought a lot of succour to my life and helped me overcome the challenges I was facing then. I think it is very similar in Christian faith. Further, like I started believing in the accounts of Krishna and Rama in Hindu scripture, I started believing in accounts of Jesus Christ in the New Testament (miraculous power used by Jesus to help those who prayed to God/him). Note that I was born, grew up and worked in and around Bombay/Mumbai which has a lot of Christians and Christian institutions. So I have had reasonable exposure to Indian Christians and their faith and practices.
I have prayed to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba over many years and have experienced how he responded to my prayers (and sometimes just thoughts) while he was in physical body. After he gave up his physical body, I continue to pray to Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba everyday for his blessings & grace and to take care of me. He is my Ishta-Devata (favourite form of God). Prior to me coming to Sathya Sai, Krishna was my Ishta-Devata.
And the belief part for me is not limited to belief in power of divine figures to intervene in human affairs and help those who pray to them. It extends to core ***revelations*** in Hindu scripture about life like about reincarnation and karma. Today I believe them to be true as not only Hindu scripture says so but Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba also reinforced those beliefs/revelations. But I do not have any direct mystical knowledge/experience of either reincarnation or karma! I have no real idea about what I was in my previous birth(s), though I believe that I did have many previous birth(s) (due to reincarnation belief). Further, I strongly believe that if I intentionally hurt a person, excluding the cases of self-defence and whistle-blowing to help improve ethical values, then, typically, I will have to suffer the negative karmic consequence of that act, in this birth or a future birth. That belief steers me to avoid intentionally hurting another person whenever possible/feasible (excluding the exception cases).
So belief is an important part of my life now. However, I do not impose my beliefs on others. I express my beliefs in some of my writings but it is up to the reader to accept/reject them.
I should also say that history of human society teaches us that religion has often been used by the people in power (high priests and monarchs) to manipulate believers to do what they want, which may not be in line with core revelations of the great avatars, divine figures and prophets who founded those religions/religious communities. I have been fortunate that late twentieth century Hinduism in Indian cities like Bombay/Mumbai, which was the main religious & spiritual part of the milieu that I grew up in, had discarded some such beliefs/doctrine which were more to control/manipulate believers/followers in past centuries and millennia rather than having core revelations. I think that would be the case with Christianity too. I am sure that many Christians today do not accept the belief that Christ is the only saviour and that those who believe in other divine figures of other religions (like me) will burn in hell for eternity. I think such manipulative beliefs/doctrine have got cast aside by most Christians of our generation in most parts of the world, though some "fundamentalist" kind of religious believers (of most, if not all, religions) are still there. My beliefs do not include any such manipulative/control kind of devices introduced by people in power (mostly in past centuries & millennia), but are related only to core revelations from Hindu scripture which have been re-affirmed by divine figures like Shirdi Sai Baba and Sathya Sai Baba. Note that many of these core revelations about the divine in Hinduism have similar counter parts in other religions like Christianity and Islam, though there may be some differences in details. For example, while Christianity and Islam do not have the Karma doctrine (as far as I know), they do have the day of judgement. And all these religions believe that compassion and charity towards the poor and suffering will do good to a person eventually (good Karma, or good deeds which will be read/seen on the day of judgement).
I must also mention that in the book, my focus was to share my understanding of views of some great people and some scripture (Chandogya Upanishad), along with some little insights that I have had, about divine power, about God & science conversation, and about belief in God. I leave it to young readers to then decide for themselves whether they want to reject my views or give it serious consideration. I do think that youngsters who have swallowed Richard Dawkins atheism-preachings, may find that my book makes them re-evaluate Richard Dawkins atheism-preachings given the views of big shot scientists like Francis Collins and Max Planck on God/consciousness. But for that they need to read the book with an open mind.
I do not promote my book in a big way. It is just out there as a free ebook and low-cost printed book, for any interested person to read. In that sense, I guess I am not an evangelist about these views. Of course, if I happen to have any conversation with a youngster who is taken by Richard Dawkins and others' atheism views, and who is willing to read other views of top scientists like Collins and Planck, I will suggest the book to him/her. But I won't push it. I am not into pushy evangelism. I just share my views and leave it to the reader to accept/reject or do whatever with those views.
Thanks again, Jeff!
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Jayaraman Trikkur, an old software industry colleague and friend wrote (slightly edited) on 11th May 2019, and was OK with public sharing:
I read your book 'Who am I'. Highly thought provoking articles. It covers everything on Upanishads, to great scientists, other religions' (thoughts) and atheists' thoughts. Very well written.
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Hi Ravi,
I finished reading your book. It is very interesting. Your explanation and dialogues with believers and nonbelievers in God is excellent. Your line of reasoning is easy to read and you link the scriptures very well.
...
Thanks once again for your marvelous book.
---- end of friend and former software industry colleague's comments ---
I responded (slightly edited):
Hi --Name-snipped--,
I am glad you were able to finish reading the book! For a writer, especially a newbie self-published author like me, it a matter of great satisfaction that a friend and former software industry colleague found it worthy enough to read the whole book.
Thanks for your kind words about the book. They are very encouraging.
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On 22nd Sep. 2018, Shri Biren Sanghavi, a colleague of my batch of Ruia college, wrote over email (slightly edited):
Your book was very thought provoking...and wish you all the very best and higher upliftment of soul in your spiritual journey....
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I (Ravi) responded (slightly edited): By the Grace of God and the diligent work of many spiritual masters who I studied in depth, I think I have got a good theoretical understanding of spirituality now, and the view, Hinduism and Christianity have of it, with some exposure to the view Islam, Buddhism and Jainism have of it. But, on the practical side, while I know the path to be followed, I have my struggles with my many human weaknesses.
Thanks for the feedback on the book.
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On 30th Aug. 2018, Shri Nagesh Nallappa provided the following feedback (slightly edited) on the book, and was OK with public sharing of it:
Om Sri Sai Ram
Dear Ravi,
I must say that, overall, I found the book absorbing.
Quoting links & submitting proofs of your views/arguments, only shows how deep you have delved into the subject and how strong is your conviction, be it differing from Dawkins or Higgs field or so on.
I am mentioning only some of the many pages which made the book an interesting read for me –
* Your explanation for ‘Tat Tvam Asi’ (page 26); experience of Brahman (page 27); your adding two beautiful points to “What We Believe” (page 35);
* Your observation (Page 41) “one can assert that there is no God only if he is all-knowing (omniscient), which Dawkins does not claim to be….”;
* Under “Praying Openly While Doing a PhD”, (page 66) the anecdote you have mentioned…;
(Somehow, I vaguely remember Bhagawan having quoted such a conversation having taken place between two professors of Banaras University. I may be totally wrong.)
* In Page No. 70, “the story of Hindu Pride” ….I must mention here that the Srivaishnavite Saint, Sri Ramanuja, the founder of Visishthadwaitam, (1017-1137) was one such exception, to have had a large heart (for which He was named as “Emperumaanaar”, by his revered Guru) who allowed Harijans to enter into the temple in Melkote, Mysore. He even named them “Thirukkulathor”.
I quote excerpts from an article –
Quote:
Article: Sri Ramanuja, His life before & after “Sanyasam” (Sainthood)
The following article was written by Sri. S. Sriraman, (of 26/9, Promenade Rd., Trichy) who last held the position of Director of Secretariat of Industrial approvals, in the Ministry of Industries, Govt. of India. Born in Thanjavur district of Tamil Nadu, he traveled widely across India and the world. He was an avid reader of Indian history, religion, and mythology. He endeavored to bring out aspects of these in a series of interesting“letters to the next generations”, some of which are featured here.
All the three are letters written by him to his grandson Chi. Gokul which is now being reproduced in the formation of article.
The first two part below consists of the history of Sri Ramanuja, His life before and after becoming a sanayasi.
…………………….
”Ramanuja found a stone vigraha of Lord Vishnu in the forests and constructed a temple for it at Thirunarayanapuram (also known as Melkote) near Mandya in Mysore. He was told the Muslim soldiers who had invaded the place had taken the utsava vigraha to Delhi. Ramanuja went to Delhi and retrieved the utsava vigraha, which he called Sampath Kumara (Selva Pillai). When certain people attacked Ramanuja’s group returning with the vigraha in the forests, the Harijans living nearby came around, fought against the marauders and helped Ramanuja to save the vigraha. A grateful Ramanuja called them “Thiru Kulathore” and made an announcement that they were allowed always to enter the temple and worship Sampath Kumara. Thus Thirunarayanapuram (Melkote) temple was the first wherein Harijans were allowed and Ramanuja was the first person who took the revolutionary step of admitting them into the temple.”
Unquote:
(This incident also finds place in the book, “The life of Ramanujacharya”, by Alkondavilli Govindhacharya, originally published in 1906.)
* Your conclusion and disagreement to Prof. Dawkins’ view ……….. (page 85);
* Your mention of fake claimed supernatural powers (including self-imagined powers)(page 96) (did ring a strong bell [MDH]);
* Your conclusive observation (page 113) “I tend to shy away from comparisons between some (typically inelegant) Physics theory which gains currency/gets validated and very elegant deep spiritual philosophy like Vedanta”;
* and many other pages.
While going through the book, I could find the inspiration and the spiritual guidance you have personally had from our Most Beloved Bhagawan, running as the undercurrent all along.
I had marked more places in your book to write to you on, but it already looks as if I have started writing a book and may exceed the number of pages of your very book!
---- end of main part of Shri Nagesh Nallappa's feedback ----
I (Ravi) responded to him as follows (slightly edited):
Dear Nagesh sir,
Sai Ram sir!
I am very happy to receive your detailed comments for my book. That you found the book to be worthy of your reading time is itself a matter of great satisfaction to me.
I am thankful to you for sharing how the great Vaishnavite saint and philosopher, Sri Ramanujacharya, was helped by the Harijan community when he was attacked while bringing back the divine vigraham of Lord Rama from Delhi to Melkote. It was wonderful and very courageous of Sri Ramanujacharya then to declare that Harijans would be allowed to enter the temple.
You write, "While going through the book, I could find the inspiration and the spiritual guidance you have personally had from our Most Beloved Bhagawan, running as the undercurrent all along." Nagesh sir, you are very right. In particular, the period from around the beginning of 2010 till March 2011 was a very intense spiritual period for me, with the ****great blessing**** of having Darshan of Bhagavan in Sai Kulwant Hall on most of the days, and on some days me having eye contact interaction with him from around 5 to 15 feet distance (as I was seated in Old students block which I preferred instead of teachers block due to some health issue I had).
The book is based on the iami1.wordpress.com blog most of whose posts/articles were done in the period of Sept. 2011 when I started the blog and then from August to Nov. 2012. The Chandogya Upanishad related post in April 2018 is based on a private circulation document I did in June 2010. These posts were done during a period where I was trying very hard, quite successfully I think, to retain the spiritual intensity that I had got into, during 2010 and early part of 2011 till March 2011 (last month of Bhagavan physical form darshan). [Now, especially after getting into the Muddenahalli social media exposure (and related discord) matter, I am no more in that spiritual intensity mode.]
I wanted to share the Sanathana Dharma teachings & philosophy of Bhagavan that allowed a harmony between spirituality and science. I knew that for Bhagavan these teachings and philosophy being spread was far more important than his name being spread (which gets spread anyway due to his great Avatarhood). Therefore, to avoid some readers getting caught up in any controversy that seems to always accompany great living or near-contemporary spiritual masters, I did not highlight Bhagavan's name in the book but focused on Sanathana Dharma teachings reinvigorated and re-taught by him.
Bhagavan surely has been the great Gurudev for guiding me and also inspiring me to write the above posts.
--- end main part of my response to Shri Nagesh Nallappa ---
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While I have received earlier some private oral and written feedback on my book 'Who am I? I am I - Ultimate Existential Reality Answer; Vedanta; God and Science conversation', https://pothi.com/pothi/book/ravi-s-iyer-ultimate-existential-reality-answer-vedanta-god-and-science, Soli Kheswalla is the first person who has provided feedback and was OK with public sharing of it.
Soli Kheswalla gave the following feedback (slightly edited) over email on my "Who am I? I am I ..." book on 21st Aug. 2018:
I am not much of a book reader and hence took some time to go over it. Congrats on your first book and may there be many more in future.
What I really liked is the simplicity of language used. Most of the chapters were really thought provoking and some of them made me realise that there are other ways (of) looking at things.
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Ravi S. Iyer responded to Soli Kheswalla:
Thank you so much for your valuable feedback.
I am happy that you found the time to read the book and share your valuable feedback.
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On Soli giving his approval for public sharing, Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited):
Thanks a ton brother Soli. Yours will be the first public comment on the book (I have received some private comments, oral and written) that I will be sharing. I think it will help future potential readers to decide whether to invest their time in browsing/reading through the book or not.
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[I thank Sri. S. Sriraman and have presumed that he and his publishers will not have any objections to me sharing the above small extract from his article on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]
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