Some thoughts of mine about software techie spiritual aspirants, Hinduism, Science, Christian faith etc.

Last updated on 31-Aug-2018

Note: The post contents below have only my part of a conversation with another person. Readers may want to look at the full conversation post here: http://ravisiyer.blogspot.com/2018/08/conversation-on-software-techie.html .

[About being software techies and novices on spiritual path:]

I think most of us are in the learning boat. As software techies (software developers & designers) we get trained rather ruthlessly by the computer to be respectful of truth. If the program or the design/architecture of the software has serious flaws, the computer ruthlessly exposes the flaws when the appropriate input triggers the flaws leading to the software not working properly. The computer does not try to be nice to us neither can we try to boss over the computer to "behave" and run our software "properly". We come to terms with the fact that, virtually always, the problem is in our program and/or design/architecture of the software, and that the computer is virtually always truthful to its task of running the program as per instructions given to it.

I think this training of our minds to be respectful of the truth is a great benefit of having been or being in the software development field. And I think it is this respect for truth that is vital in both the spiritual quest as well as in science.

[About statements like 'I am God' in Hindu Vedanta:]

Well, here I think the definition of God in the context of a person, comes into play. My understanding of Hindu belief and scripture in this matter is that there is the absolute formless God - Nirakara Parabrahman is one term for it - which is all pervasive in the universe. There is no place where it is not. And then there are Avatars who are superhuman divine figures endowed with superhuman and divine power who take birth as a form (animal or human - Matsya, Kurma, Varahari, Narahari, Vaaman, Rama, Krishna etc.). These are referred to by many as Godmen (or God-animals too, I guess for Matsya, Kurma, Varahari and Narahari/Narasimha). But I think it is imprecise to refer to them as Godmen as that implies they represent all aspects and powers of God. Avatar is a much better term as it does not imply that they represent all aspects and powers of God. And then there are saints and rishis who through spiritual inspiration, practices etc. attain some divine powers and get some divine revelations. The key difference between Avatar and saint/rishi being that the Avatar does not do any particular spiritual sadhana to acquire divine powers. They are born with those powers which may lay hidden/latent at times but expresses itself appropriately at times which become the signs with which they are recognized as Avatars.

And then there are normal animals and humans (like us), all of which are essentially divine [Tat Twam Asi from Chandogya Upanishad] but they do not have the direct knowledge and experience of their divinity. Hindu scripture (and my Gurudev Sathya Sai) tells us that Maya, the great illusion, born primarily out of the mind and its desires and samskaras (mental impressions/mental tendencies) from previous births, clouds us from knowing our innate divinity and innate reality. So we identify ourselves with our mind-body complex which, Vedanta teaches us, is an illusory projection of our innate reality, the changeless and divine Atma. And this Atma, Vedanta teaches us, is part and parcel of Paramatma.

Nowadays some spiritual masters use the term consciousness or awareness as the Atma (I would use the term spiritual-consciousness or spiritual-awareness to differentiate from more limited meanings, I presume, of consciousness and awareness in psychology related sciences). And they say there is a super-consciousness which spiritually evolved beings (and Avatars, I believe) experience where they experience their awareness/beingness not only in their mind-body but also in mind-bodies of others. I have directly experienced that Sathya Sai would simply know what is in my mind and what I had done even outside his physical presence. Sathya Sai explained to somebody else that he gets such knowledge as he is the consciousness not only in his body (mind-body, I would say) but also in the bodies (mind-bodies) of others.

I have never experienced such a state where I felt myself (my awareness/beingness) as part of another person's mind-body and thus know about what they are thinking or had done (having access to mind and memory of others). But Sathya Sai had that awesome divine power. And so I now believe accounts in holy scripture where Avatars like Krishna had such powers and more.

[Hindu view of God is more than divinity permeating the universe and its laws:]

Hindu view of Divinity/God which I believe in, is more than divinity permeating the universe and its laws which include what I view as spiritual laws like law of karma. Hindu belief (and Christian belief) includes the power of prayer to the Divine which, at least at times, results in Divine power interceding in worldly affairs to help the supplicant (person making the prayer). E.g. Narasimha Avatar responding to prayers of Prahlada. Jesus healing some of those who prayed to him for help.

And then both Hindu and Christian belief include the great possibility/potential of humans evolving spiritually and getting divine / superhuman experiences. In Hinduism there is the vital possibility of the spiritual aspirant experiencing great and powerful states of divinity like one where he/she experiences himself/herself in all and all in himself/herself.

[About how Karma and rebirth would be viewed by hard science and by logic and philosophy:]

Well, hard science is a very rigidly delineated system of acquisition of knowledge and of the body of such acquired knowledge. Objective verification using human senses and/or well understood scientific instruments is a starting point for scientific investigation of any phenomenon. This is where Karma and even rebirth become very difficult things to bring into the realm of hard science investigation. Whatever work is done by parapsychology sciences and rebirth studies (like what University of Virginia, USA is famous for) is rejected by top hard science scientists as pseudo-science.

Science will not even accept the entry of such a theory/law of Karma into any proper scientific investigation! I mean, I cannot imagine Nature (top scientific publication/magazine) publishing a scientific paper (as against a casual column/article) examining law of Karma. Now I don't usually read Nature magazine and so I may be wrong here. But I doubt it. I have corresponded with a couple of top scientists who read Nature and such stuff. I doubt such top scientists will accept Karma as a valid scientific phenomenon on which scientific investigation articles should be published in Nature. These guys are very solid and very protective gatekeepers of top level hard science publications.

But theory of karma will not have any conflict with logic or philosophy (religious philosophy) as a possibility. I think they would still demand evidence for a statement that Karma is fact. I would say that Karma is belief and NOT logical/philosophical established fact.

[About Karma and Christian belief:]

Karma along with rebirth is a pretty satisfying catch-all theory though very elastic in exactly when and how the effect will take place. But Christian belief rejects rebirth. And so I don't think they buy the Karma theory the way Hindus do.

[About Christian salvation (being 'saved') and Hindu Moksha:]

I don't know Christian theology well enough to make proper comments here. But from what little I know, I think that Christian theology has the view that God is outside of us. I also don't think they talk of people merging in God. The impression I have is that Christian theology views humans as lesser than God and distinct from God, but that humans have been created by God in the image of God. So humans being 'saved' by God or attaining salvation in Christianity, I think, means that the person is saved from suffering the consequences of sins including the original sin of Adam & Eve which is inherited by Christians as per their belief (humanity as per their belief), and leading an eternal blissful life in the presence of God (but separate life from God) in Heaven. Those who do not get 'saved' are expected to suffer in Hell. I think these beliefs are quite central to Roman Catholic Church belief and I guess it would be somewhat similar in many Protestant church beliefs.

So I don't think Christians who deeply believe in Church doctrine would view being 'saved' as attaining 'moksha'. However, Christians who are willing to be a little elastic on such Church doctrine matters could view being 'saved' as attaining 'moksha'.

[About giving up ego and Moksha:]

Letting go of the ego is an important aspect of spiritual evolution. But I think there is more to be done for attaining Moksha (freedom/liberation from illusion of Maya and worldly bondage). Typically one views ego as pride associated with one's mind and body, possessions and achievements. Humility would be viewed as its opposite and a very desirable spiritual quality for spiritual aspirants.

But the key thing for Moksha is getting out of the illusive and false (bhrama) identification of one's reality with one's mind-and-body, and getting into the real and eternal identification of one's reality with one's Atma (divine and unchanging awareness/consciousness). Hinduism talks of overcoming the six flaws of Kaama (desire including sexual desire), Krodha (anger), Lobha (Greed), Moha (infatuation), Mada (pride) and Matsarya (jealousy), which can then lead to a calm and peaceful (and thoughtless) mind at which time one can more easily experience one's unchanging and eternal awareness which Hindu scripture says is the source of the mind (and the body).

[About basis of belief in Karma and rebirth:]

For me, it is revelations from Avatars and evolved spiritual masters/Rishis about Karma and rebirth, that is the basis of my belief in Karma and rebirth. Yes, the theory of Karma does answer, when interpreted elastically, various things we see in life. But that alone would not have made it a strong belief of mine. It is the revelations about it in Hindu scripture, and in my case by my beloved Gurudev Sathya Sai Baba, that makes it a core belief of mine. In particular, I try to avoid hurting others as far as possible (excluding case of self-defense), partly as a way of life taught by Sathya Sai, but also as a way to avoid negative karmic consequences that I would suffer if I deliberately hurt somebody (unless in self-defense), in this birth or a future birth (if I do not achieve Moksha in this birth).

[About who created the creator:]

My belief is that there are some things beyond human mind comprehension. Who created the creator is one such thing.

[About the coming of Avatars:]

My strong belief based on Hindu scripture which I think matches Christian scripture too, is that God loves his creation, especially humans that he has created. So God descends as Avatar among human society when things go very bad and shows humanity the right way to live (Dharma) for that particular age. But there is also the prayer of devotees for God to help them that is vital for God's coming down to world (or coming outside into world from inner being reality of all of us) as an Avatar. It is intense prayer and calls for help that triggers the Avatar's coming.

[About suitable spiritual path for persons with family responsibilities:]

What I have observed from being with many family people who are spiritual aspirants too, is that the Jnana marg (wisdom path) as followed and preached by Nisargadatta and Ramana in the 20th century, is NOT suitable for family people who have family responsibilities to fulfill. Yes, they can read up the theory parts of it but NOT get into deep practice as that involves renunciation and Vairagya (detachment) which can wreck the family.

Instead the safer approach is the mix of Bhakti (devotion) and Seva (service) where the family members are viewed as gifts of God and whose service is the Tapas (spiritual austerity) that the family member is doing in a spirit of love and selflessness. That is very powerful spiritual practice to conquer desire, anger, greed, infatuation, pride and jealousy.

In the fullness of time, such persons may eventually find themselves to be in a position where they have discharged their family responsibilities and can then pursue a more intense Jnana marga path involving renunciation and vairagya. At that time, the earlier foundation being laid of conquest of lower urges of desire, anger, greed, infatuation, pride and jealousy, may make further spiritual progress and evolution through Jnana marga very easy.

[Spiritual masters and scripture influence on my life:]

It is very clear to me now that Sathya Sai, Shirdi Sai and Ramana Maharshi along with the large body of Hindu scripture from Veda to Vedanta to Geeta to Bhagavatam and other Puranas and Ramayana, have had a very big influence on my spiritual understanding and views. But I had to do a lot of thinking and contemplation too, to understand it from my individual life perspective and to, many times, get a more nuanced understanding and come out of some misunderstandings that I had had of some of Hindu scripture/Sai/Ramana teachings.
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Given below are some comments of mine from my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2269399336609964, associated with this blog post :

In response to a comment, I (Ravi) wrote:
Oh! I certainly am still a spiritual aspirant with my share of human weaknesses to overcome.
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In response to a comment about my post being reposted sans my name and that my name would be provided on request, I (Ravi) wrote:
Sure. You are welcome.
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In response to a comment, I (Ravi) wrote (slightly edited) :

Thanks for your comment and the kind words in it. I would like to respond in detail to one sentence in your comment, "Man is duty bound and in his late age he is free to pursue more (vigorous) bhakti or even renouncing the family."

While I think that your above statement applies to a majority, perhaps the vast majority, of Sathya Sai devotees and perhaps of mankind in general, it is important to note that there are some men and women who are blessed to pursue vigorous Bhakti and even renunciation from their middle age and even youth at times.

I felt it appropriate to provide some practical cases of the above, in our Sathya Sai devotee fraternity.

There are some Sathya Sai devotees who Bhagavan has inspired to stay unmarried and also take care of their parents. Such a life is very challenging. But I have seen that in Puttaparthi in quite a few cases. I myself got the mental strength and inspiration from Bhagavan's teachings, to take care of my mother during her old age and illness days as an unmarried person, for a period of over five years, where I used to work flexi-time and part-time as a software consultant so that I could take care of mother and also earn money to meet living expenses of mother and me, and pay medical bills of mother's medical care including several hospitalization stints. I was living in Dombivli (city near Mumbai) then and working for Mumbai software companies as a consultant. My father had passed away in my boyhood when I was around 15 years old. My software career nosedived as I had become a part-time consultant. But my spiritual career blossomed as I served my mother and got deeply associated with the Sathya Sai samithi in Dombivli.

My mother passed away in February 1999. Her last words to me on her hospital bed and when she knew was going to give up her body (die at physical level), were that I had taken good care of her! After that I saved some money till Sep. 2002 and then was able to focus my energies on spiritual quest from Oct. 2002 at around 40 years of age as a free service spiritual sevak (worker/volunteer) and sadhak.

Without Bhagavan's teachings and inspiration and the moral support of Sathya Sai Seva Samithi Dombivli, I would not have been able to do what I described above.

After Oct. 2002 by Bhagavan's Grace and, I am quite sure, my mother's blessings for me having served her during her old age and illness period, I had the great good fortune of serving Bhagavan in Prasanthi Nilayam system as a free service person - Short stint of weeks or months in Radio Sai, in Planetarium etc. and then as Staff/Faculty in Sai university from Jan. 2003 till Mar. 2012. This allowed me to have regular Darshan of Swami, listen to his discourses live, and interact closely with many people who had spent many years, sometimes decades, in Prasanthi Nilayam system and had had many physical interactions with Swami.

This period has been the most productive spiritual growth period for me. Being in regular physical presence of the Avatar of the age, even if I was never physically close to Swami, taught me immensely about devotion to God and real spiritual dedication.

I shared the above NOT to pat myself on my back :-). I shared it just to show that all men and women need not wait till old age for a life of rigorous spiritual quest involving Bhakti, Seva and/or Jnana paths along with renunciation.

And there are quite a few cases of similar unmarried men and women in Puttaparthi who take care of the parents or have taken care of them till they passed away. Some of these persons have ***dedicated*** their life to Swami's mission. I know some of these persons and when I was associated with Sai university and Prasanthi Nilayam ashram, I have closely interacted with them. Bhagavan's teachings, example and inspiration is what would have contributed to such persons leading such lives.

To conclude, what I want to say is that leading an unmarried life and taking care of parents, and vigorously following Bhakti and other spiritual paths, is possible even today. There are quite a few living examples of that in Puttaparthi. Such persons keep a low profile and are not talked about much in Sathya Sai media outlets. But long timers in Puttaparthi know them and have huge respect and affection for them due to them leading such lives which surely would make Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba very, very happy.
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