Carl Jung on I am experience, belief in God, psyche continuing after death and more
Carl Jung - Face to Face [BBC - 1959], https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTBs-2cloEI, 39 min. 27 secs, published on Mar. 21, 2013.
Page 423 onwards of http://archive.org/stream/MemoriesDreamsReflectionsCarlJung/carlgustavjung-interviewsandencounters-110821120821-phpapp02_djvu.txt, contains the transcript of the above BBC video interview of Dr. Jung by John Freeman. [Searching for "423" in the web page is an easy way to reach this part (the first search result when searching from the top of the page)]
As the interview transcript is available on archive.org I have presumed that the copyright has expired. So I have put up some extracts of the transcript below as this is a free blog for interested readers with no profit motive whatsoever.
Some excerpts from the transcript (with minor editing to correct typo kind of stuff and to put in names of interviewer, Freeman, and Jung), and some comments from me:
I AM experience (Around 2:55 in the video)
Freeman: Now, can I take you back to your own childhood? Do you remember the occasion when you first felt consciousness of your own individual self?
Jung: That was in my eleventh year. There I suddenly was on my way to school I stepped out of a mist. It was just as if I had been in a mist, walking in a mist, and I stepped out of it and I knew, "I am." "I am what I am." And then I thought, "But what have I been before?" And then I found that I had been in a mist, not knowing how to differentiate my self from things. I was just one thing among many (other) things.
[Ravi: If I got that right, Jung got the realization of his self (I am) with the ability to differentiate his self from many (other) things, at just eleven years of age!]
...
Belief in God/Divine spirit (Around 7:50 in the video)
Freeman: What sort of religious upbringing did your father give you?
Jung: Oh, we were Swiss Reformed.
Freeman: And did he make you attend church regularly?
Jung: Oh, well, that was quite natural. Everybody went to church on Sunday.
Freeman: And did you believe in God?
Jung: Oh, yes.
Freeman: Do you now believe in God?
Jung: Now? [Pause.] Difficult to answer. I know. I don't need to believe. I know.
[Ravi: Fascinating! Jung knew his 'I am' and the underlying divine spirit (called God). He did not need to believe. It seems to me that his faith in an underlying divine spirit (God) came from his subjective experiences of it/divine spirit.]
....
Lot more study needed on man's psyche; Only real danger that exists is man himself (Around 28:59 in the video)
Freeman: During the nineteen thirties, when you were working a lot with German patients, you did, I believe, forecast that a second world war was very likely. Well now, looking at the world today, do you feel that a third world war is likely?
Jung: I have no definite indications in that respect, but there are so many indications that one doesn't know what one sees. Is it trees, or is it the wood? It's very difficult to say, because people's dreams contain apprehensions, you know, but it is very difficult to say whether they point to a war, because that idea is uppermost in people's minds. Formerly, you know, it has been much simpler. People didn't think of a war, and therefore it was rather clear what the dreams meant. Nowadays no more so. We are so full of apprehensions, fears, that one doesn't know exactly to what it points. One thing is sure. A great change of our psychological attitude is imminent. That is certain.
Freeman: And why?
Jung: Because we need more — we need more psychology. We need more understanding of human nature, because the only real danger that exists is man himself. He is the great danger, and we are pitifully unaware of it. We know nothing of man, far too little. His psyche should be studied, because we are the origin of all coming evil.
Need to have concept of sin and evil, and redeemer (Around 31:10 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: Does man, do you think, need to have the concept of sin and evil to live with? Is this part of our nature?
Jung: Well, obviously.
Freeman: And of a redeemer?
Jung: That is an inevitable consequence.
Freeman: This is not a concept which will disappear as we become more rational; it's something which —
Jung: Well, I don't believe that man ever will deviate from the original pattern of his being. There will always be such ideas. For instance, if you do not directly believe in a personal redeemer, as it was the case with Hitler, or the hero-worship in Russia, then it is an idea, it is a symbolic idea.
[Ravi: Very interesting to note that Jung says that Hitler did not directly believe in a personal redeemer and implies that Stalin & co. in Russia too did not. Instead they believed in ideas/symbolic ideas (of Nazism and a brand of autocratic communism both of which failed the test of time).]
Psyche continuing after death (Around 32:12 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: You have written, at one time (or) another, some sentences which have surprised me a little, about death. Now, in particular I remember you said that death is psychologically just as important as birth and like it is an integral part of life. But surely it can't be like birth if it's an end, can it?
Jung: Yes, if it's an end, and there we are not quite certain about this end, because you know there are these peculiar faculties of the psyche, that it isn't entirely confined to space and time. You can have dreams or visions of the future, you can see around corners, and such things. Only ignorance denies these facts, you know; it's quite evident that they do exist, and have existed always. Now these facts show that the psyche, in part at least, is not dependent upon these confinements. And then what? When the psyche is not under that obligation to live in time and space alone, and obviously it doesn't, then to that extent the psyche is not subjected to those laws, and that means a practical continuation of life, of a sort of psychical existence beyond time and space.
[Ravi: I find it very notable that the famous Carl Gustav Jung knew/believed/felt that the spirit/psyche lives on after death, based on his research and his own subjective experiences.]
Freeman: Do you yourself believe that death is probably the end, or do you believe that —
Jung: Well, I can't say. You see, the word belief is a difficult thing for me. I don't believe. I must have a reason for a certain hypothesis. Either I know a thing, and then I know it — I don't need to believe it. I don't allow myself, for instance, to believe a thing just for the sake of believing it. I can't believe it. But when there are sufficient reasons for a certain hypothesis, I shall accept . . . naturally. I should say: "We had to reckon with the possibility of so and so" — you know.
Unconscious disregards apparent threat of complete end (death) (Around 34:46 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: Well now, you've told us that we should regard death as being a goal —
Jung: Yes.
Freeman: — and that to shrink away from it is to evade life and make life purposeless.
Jung: Yes.
Freeman: What advice would you give to people in their later life to enable them to do this, when most of them must in fact believe that death is the end of everything?
Jung: Well, you see, I have treated many old people, and it's quite interesting to watch what the unconscious is doing with the fact that it is apparently threatened with a complete end. It disregards it. Life behaves as if it were going on, and so I think it is better for old people to live on, to look forward to the next day, as if he had to spend centuries, and then he lives properly. But when he is afraid, when he doesn't look forward, he looks back, he petrifies, he gets stiff and he dies before his time. But when he's living and looking forward to the great adventure that is ahead, then he lives, and that is about what the unconscious is intending to do. Of course, it's quite obvious that we're all going to die, and this is the sad finale of everything; but nevertheless, there is something in us that doesn't believe it apparently. But this is merely a fact, a psychological fact — it doesn't mean to me that it proves something. It is simply so. For instance, I may not know why we need salt, but we prefer to eat salt, because we feel better. And so when you think in a certain way you may feel considerably better, and I think if you think along the lines of nature then you think properly.
[Ravi: I think that's superb advise on how to view/approach death. I particularly like the phrase Jung used, "looking forward to the great adventure that is ahead".]
----------- end extracts from interview transcript ---------
Page 423 onwards of http://archive.org/stream/MemoriesDreamsReflectionsCarlJung/carlgustavjung-interviewsandencounters-110821120821-phpapp02_djvu.txt, contains the transcript of the above BBC video interview of Dr. Jung by John Freeman. [Searching for "423" in the web page is an easy way to reach this part (the first search result when searching from the top of the page)]
As the interview transcript is available on archive.org I have presumed that the copyright has expired. So I have put up some extracts of the transcript below as this is a free blog for interested readers with no profit motive whatsoever.
Some excerpts from the transcript (with minor editing to correct typo kind of stuff and to put in names of interviewer, Freeman, and Jung), and some comments from me:
I AM experience (Around 2:55 in the video)
Freeman: Now, can I take you back to your own childhood? Do you remember the occasion when you first felt consciousness of your own individual self?
Jung: That was in my eleventh year. There I suddenly was on my way to school I stepped out of a mist. It was just as if I had been in a mist, walking in a mist, and I stepped out of it and I knew, "I am." "I am what I am." And then I thought, "But what have I been before?" And then I found that I had been in a mist, not knowing how to differentiate my self from things. I was just one thing among many (other) things.
[Ravi: If I got that right, Jung got the realization of his self (I am) with the ability to differentiate his self from many (other) things, at just eleven years of age!]
...
Belief in God/Divine spirit (Around 7:50 in the video)
Freeman: What sort of religious upbringing did your father give you?
Jung: Oh, we were Swiss Reformed.
Freeman: And did he make you attend church regularly?
Jung: Oh, well, that was quite natural. Everybody went to church on Sunday.
Freeman: And did you believe in God?
Jung: Oh, yes.
Freeman: Do you now believe in God?
Jung: Now? [Pause.] Difficult to answer. I know. I don't need to believe. I know.
[Ravi: Fascinating! Jung knew his 'I am' and the underlying divine spirit (called God). He did not need to believe. It seems to me that his faith in an underlying divine spirit (God) came from his subjective experiences of it/divine spirit.]
....
Lot more study needed on man's psyche; Only real danger that exists is man himself (Around 28:59 in the video)
Freeman: During the nineteen thirties, when you were working a lot with German patients, you did, I believe, forecast that a second world war was very likely. Well now, looking at the world today, do you feel that a third world war is likely?
Jung: I have no definite indications in that respect, but there are so many indications that one doesn't know what one sees. Is it trees, or is it the wood? It's very difficult to say, because people's dreams contain apprehensions, you know, but it is very difficult to say whether they point to a war, because that idea is uppermost in people's minds. Formerly, you know, it has been much simpler. People didn't think of a war, and therefore it was rather clear what the dreams meant. Nowadays no more so. We are so full of apprehensions, fears, that one doesn't know exactly to what it points. One thing is sure. A great change of our psychological attitude is imminent. That is certain.
Freeman: And why?
Jung: Because we need more — we need more psychology. We need more understanding of human nature, because the only real danger that exists is man himself. He is the great danger, and we are pitifully unaware of it. We know nothing of man, far too little. His psyche should be studied, because we are the origin of all coming evil.
Need to have concept of sin and evil, and redeemer (Around 31:10 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: Does man, do you think, need to have the concept of sin and evil to live with? Is this part of our nature?
Jung: Well, obviously.
Freeman: And of a redeemer?
Jung: That is an inevitable consequence.
Freeman: This is not a concept which will disappear as we become more rational; it's something which —
Jung: Well, I don't believe that man ever will deviate from the original pattern of his being. There will always be such ideas. For instance, if you do not directly believe in a personal redeemer, as it was the case with Hitler, or the hero-worship in Russia, then it is an idea, it is a symbolic idea.
[Ravi: Very interesting to note that Jung says that Hitler did not directly believe in a personal redeemer and implies that Stalin & co. in Russia too did not. Instead they believed in ideas/symbolic ideas (of Nazism and a brand of autocratic communism both of which failed the test of time).]
Psyche continuing after death (Around 32:12 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: You have written, at one time (or) another, some sentences which have surprised me a little, about death. Now, in particular I remember you said that death is psychologically just as important as birth and like it is an integral part of life. But surely it can't be like birth if it's an end, can it?
Jung: Yes, if it's an end, and there we are not quite certain about this end, because you know there are these peculiar faculties of the psyche, that it isn't entirely confined to space and time. You can have dreams or visions of the future, you can see around corners, and such things. Only ignorance denies these facts, you know; it's quite evident that they do exist, and have existed always. Now these facts show that the psyche, in part at least, is not dependent upon these confinements. And then what? When the psyche is not under that obligation to live in time and space alone, and obviously it doesn't, then to that extent the psyche is not subjected to those laws, and that means a practical continuation of life, of a sort of psychical existence beyond time and space.
[Ravi: I find it very notable that the famous Carl Gustav Jung knew/believed/felt that the spirit/psyche lives on after death, based on his research and his own subjective experiences.]
Freeman: Do you yourself believe that death is probably the end, or do you believe that —
Jung: Well, I can't say. You see, the word belief is a difficult thing for me. I don't believe. I must have a reason for a certain hypothesis. Either I know a thing, and then I know it — I don't need to believe it. I don't allow myself, for instance, to believe a thing just for the sake of believing it. I can't believe it. But when there are sufficient reasons for a certain hypothesis, I shall accept . . . naturally. I should say: "We had to reckon with the possibility of so and so" — you know.
Unconscious disregards apparent threat of complete end (death) (Around 34:46 in the video, continuing from above)
Freeman: Well now, you've told us that we should regard death as being a goal —
Jung: Yes.
Freeman: — and that to shrink away from it is to evade life and make life purposeless.
Jung: Yes.
Freeman: What advice would you give to people in their later life to enable them to do this, when most of them must in fact believe that death is the end of everything?
Jung: Well, you see, I have treated many old people, and it's quite interesting to watch what the unconscious is doing with the fact that it is apparently threatened with a complete end. It disregards it. Life behaves as if it were going on, and so I think it is better for old people to live on, to look forward to the next day, as if he had to spend centuries, and then he lives properly. But when he is afraid, when he doesn't look forward, he looks back, he petrifies, he gets stiff and he dies before his time. But when he's living and looking forward to the great adventure that is ahead, then he lives, and that is about what the unconscious is intending to do. Of course, it's quite obvious that we're all going to die, and this is the sad finale of everything; but nevertheless, there is something in us that doesn't believe it apparently. But this is merely a fact, a psychological fact — it doesn't mean to me that it proves something. It is simply so. For instance, I may not know why we need salt, but we prefer to eat salt, because we feel better. And so when you think in a certain way you may feel considerably better, and I think if you think along the lines of nature then you think properly.
[Ravi: I think that's superb advise on how to view/approach death. I particularly like the phrase Jung used, "looking forward to the great adventure that is ahead".]
----------- end extracts from interview transcript ---------
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