Miscellaneous posts & comments on Facebook in July 2018
When author of post or comment is not mentioned, it should be assumed that it is me (Ravi S. Iyer).
My comment dated 31st July 2018 in https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2236133183269913
The Andhra Pradesh govt. has provided vital infrastucture facilities support to Puttaparthi town including SSSCT run Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system. These include decent supply of electric power, (very vital) water to Puttaparthi from Hundri Neeva scheme, maintaining a peaceful town using the police etc. at a time when Andhra Pradesh is facing a huge financial crunch situation due to bifurcation in 2014 and loss of the big revenue earning city of Hyderabad.
Some may say that is nothing great! Well, if they visit towns and cities some distance from Puttaparthi, they will come to know about the challenges of life in this drought-prone economically backward district of Anantapur.
I am very grateful to Andhra Pradesh govt. led by Hon'ble CM N.Chandrababu Naidu, for what I have detailed above.
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On Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/vr.ganti.1/videos/10212812966023628/, I wrote on 23rd July:
The big problem is Madhusudan Rao Naidu with his cheap imitation of Sathya Sai, and his misguidance of thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world, using the HOLY NAME of Sathya Sai.
The free educational and medical service work of Muddenahalli group is NOT a problem in general, except for such work being used to promote the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudan Rao Naidu.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
Well, I don't know about Swami's name being trademarked in India. From my readings and understanding of the matter, it (Sathya Sai name) is protected from improper use as per a law in India as are other names like Ramakrishna Math and Auroville (for details see https://consumeraffairs.nic.in/WriteReadData/userfiles/file/THE%20EMBLEMS%20AND%20NAMES%20ACT,%201950.pdf). That is different from a trademark.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):]
You raise a valid possibility, --name-snipped--. Essentially, if Muddenahalli group provided detailed financial reports which are audited by an authorized auditor, about their trusts to the public then the public will know how much percentage of donated funds are used for the actual service of the advertised beneficiaries, and how much is used to pay salaries and/or perks for the top management of Muddenahalli group including Madhusudan Naidu and Narasimhamurthy.
But Muddenahalli group have NOT done that, as far as I know. So one cannot rule out the possibility that you have raised (con men using service to society as a cover to extract money from people).
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But it also has to be said that as far as we know, nobody has filed a successful/upheld as valid police complaint against Muddenahalli group for fraudulently extracting money from them. Even the Mr. Ajit Popat case could NOT be treated that way as I believe Muddenahalli group said that the money Mr. Popat had donated was used to build some school building which was used for service to society work. Therefore, I believe Mr. Popat did not have any case.
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Oh! Madhusudan Rao Naidu was reported to be in desperate financial straits before his (FALSE CLAIM) medium/communicator role brought him money and fame.
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For this comment: https://www.facebook.com/vr.ganti.1/posts/10212812975383862?comment_id=10212813904327085, I wrote (slightly edited):
Good one --name-snipped--! BTW do you also give Vibhuti and rings? That is very important bro. to create the right impression.
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I am thoroughly enjoying this --name-snipped--. I guess I really love and enjoy satire. While I have not rolled on the floor laughing, your comment has given me lots of joy and laughter. It has made my day! Thanks a ton!
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In case some readers may misunderstand my comments, I would like to clarify that my comments are aimed at the cheap imitator Madhusudan Rao Naidu and his Muddenahalli group led by B.N. Narasimhamurthy.
This Madhusudan Naidu is imitating my beloved and revered Gurudev Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, and thereby misguiding thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world.
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From https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2218296605053571 dated 17th July
Quantity of free service projects done by Muddenahalli group cannot mask the truth that spiritually they are lost as the fundamental basis of Muddenahalli group - Madhusudan Naidu's communicator claim - is false
Given below is a comment I made elsewhere on Facebook:
Sathya Sai physical form focused on quality and NOT quantity. Sathya Sai physical form was very particular about not commercialising his beloved institutions and organization.
Sathya Sai so called subtle body promoted by MBA Madhusudan Naidu and Narasimhamurthy, seem to be focused on MBA business model and talk about quantity while blatantly going against teachings and instructions of Sathya Sai relating to him never speaking through mediums and communicators.
But what I have realized is that some people ****want**** a diluted and distorted form of Sathya Sai, which they prefer to call Sathya Sai (so Madhusudan Rao Naidu is Swami meaning Sathya Sai for so many now in Muddenahalli group). Essentially, there is a market demand for such communicators espousing a diluted and distorted form of Sathya Sai, with some moneyed people flocking to that group perhaps for the additional importance they get in that group due to their big donations.
As free service to society is provided, I think they get a lot of community support and political support from the communities they serve. So Karnataka and Telangana political leaders and ministers are willing to support Muddenahalli group even if they don't really believe in Madhusudan Rao Naidu's communicator claim. I think it will be similar in other parts of the world too.
But I doubt if any respected spiritual leader will endorse Madhusudan Rao Naidu's weird claim of being able to see and communicate with an invisible and inaudible subtle body of Sathya Sai. In particular, I doubt that the Shankaracharyas of important Maths like Sringeri, or other spiritual leaders like Mata Amritanandamayi, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev etc. will publicly support Madhusudan Rao Naidu's weird claim.
They have their group and they seem to like what they do and the communities they serve are getting material benefits. But, to be frank, spiritually I think they are quite lost. And that tragedy is mainly due to B.N. Narasimhamurthy. He will NOT ESCAPE the negative karmic consequences of misguiding so many thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world. He went against direct instructions of Sathya Sai to him not to believe in such medium and communicator claims.
As I have said earlier, it would have been spiritually fine if Narasimhamurthy had done his preaching as Narasimhamurthy Baba and Madhusudan Naidu had done it as Madhu Baba. But they have misused the name of their Guru, Sathya Sai, and diluted and distorted His legacy. Time will surely not judge them in a good light irrespective of how many service to society projects they do, because of this dilution and distortion they have done to the memories and legacy of Kali Yuga Avatar, Shiva-Shakti Swarupa, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
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[The above comment was made on this comment in this post: https://www.facebook.com/yaani.drucker/posts/10156507380855477?comment_id=10156507526310477]
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On FB post https://www.facebook.com/yaani.drucker/posts/10156505705120477, I wrote on 16th July:
All the best to you sister Yaani Drucker with your planned efforts to consider serving the folks in Mississippi (Tom Sawyer territory, if I recall correctly :-) ) through Muddenahalli group proposed hospital.
For me though, the big hassle is that the medical service efforts would be done under the umbrella of Muddenahalli group which promotes the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudan Rao Naidu of being a so called communicator (with the claim now going to the extent of Swami entering his body when he does his Lingodbhavam). I think that would present a distorted view of our beloved Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, to the good folks of Mississippi. Their understanding of Bhagavan would get reduced to Madhusudan Rao Naidu which would be a real tragedy.
The great apostles of Lord Jesus Christ, like Peter, Matthew, Thomas and Paul (as you would know, Paul did not have direct interactions with Jesus and initially persecuted the early Christians before having a transformative experience on the road to Damascus) did extraordinary work to share the message of Jesus across not only Palestine but other parts of Asia including India, as well as Europe. [There are very credible articles that say that Thomas came to Kerala, India which had a Jewish trading community then, and started the Indian Syrian Christian group there in the first century AD, which continues to flourish to this day in Kerala and other parts of India.]
But in my limited readings of the work of these great apostles of Lord Jesus Christ, none of them claimed to be a chosen communicator of Jesus Christ who could see some so called subtle body of Jesus and communicate with him. So they were able to spread the message of Jesus without need for such "chosen communicator" stuff.
That Madhusudan Rao Naidu is doing this, and that it is being endorsed by Muddenahalli Group elders including B.N. Narasimhamurthy, is tragic, in my considered opinion.
I shudder to think about how some fiery evangelical preachers of the Bible belt of the USA which includes Mississippi, I believe, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt, will react to Madhusudan Rao Naidu's claim if and when his claim gets known there through the proposed free service hospital.
In my view, it would be far more acceptable to the good folks in Mississippi, USA, if Muddenahalli group has a free service hospital there WITHOUT any so called communicator stuff from Madhusudan Rao Naidu.
But that's just my view. You are free to ignore it :-) , as I am quite sure you will :-) .
Anyway, all the best with your plan to serve the good folks in Mississippi, USA.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
About Paul: Yes, I have read about the view that Paul's teachings and instructions varied somewhat from Jesus's teachings and instructions. But it is a sensitive topic as Paul is revered as one of great apostles of Christianity.
I don't know enough to agree to your point that Paul is the one responsible for church teaching that "only those who believe Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven" and that all others (including Hindus like me :-) ) will go to hell. Perhaps a lot of those details are buried in the early history of Christianity. Perhaps as Roman emperor Constantine embraced Christianity a lot was introduced into the New Testament and other sacred books of the Church which were attributed to big figures like Paul, to have more sanctity among the followers. I think the combining of state power (Roman empire) with the church, may have had a lot to do with such very aggressive statements.
Anyway, I don't think most Christian preachers in the world today, barring a few fundamentalist ones, would lay stress on this aspect of Christian doctrine that "only those who believe Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven".
BTW Hindu religious scripture also has some rather nasty stuff like this too. But in today's early 21st century Hinduism most Hinduism teachers/preachers ignore such nasty stuff. Essentially, Hinduism seems to have gone through a period of great reform in the past few centuries. Perhaps Christianity too has gone through a lot of reform in the past few centuries.
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About how Bible Belt fiery evangelical preachers would view Madhusudan Naidu's so called communicator claim: One has to wait and see to know for sure. But having seen quite a few videos about such preachers, I am quite sure that they will be pretty shocked to be told that Madhusudan Naidu is able to see a "subtle form" of an Indian Guru and communicate with that "subtle form" but that that "subtle form" is invisible and inaudible to them!
I wouldn't be surprised if such preachers start viewing the so called "subtle form" as a ghost and I doubt they will view it as a benign one!
I wonder whether you have lived in the Bible Belt heartland in states like Texas and Tennessee. I have never been there. But I have some friends and acquaintances who have lived there. I recall at least one of them telling me that it is very, very different (in terms of their rigid beliefs in the Christian group they belong to) from places like New England and California (where I have lived) or New York, which are more tolerant and liberal about religious pluralism and unconventional religious/spiritual beliefs.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
Oh! Some months ago, somebody else (from Holland) had told me about her father having the same attitude towards her becoming a devotee of Swami. I was pretty shocked to hear that from somebody in person. I mean, it was one thing to read about it in articles and books. But to hear it from a real person whose father strongly felt that way, really shocked me.
Hmm. So you had to go through that experience, sister Yaani Drucker. That would have been rough! Guys like me who were born in India as Hindus had a much more smoother pathway towards becoming a devotee of Swami. No wonder, Swami was so appreciative of the devotion of some non-Indian (foreign) devotees from faiths other than Hinduism.
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BTW I studied for 3 years (8th Std. to 10th Std.) in a Dutch-Indian Catholic order run school in Bombay. From its history page here: https://cardinalgraciashighschool.org/page/6/, "Cardinal Gracias High School was founded on 12th June 1961 and has been managed by the Norbertine Fathers since 1964. The Nortbertine Fathers vowed to seek Christ by living in common, sharing all things in holy poverty, and dedicating themselves to ministering to God’s People. The St. Norbertine Priory in Mumbai manages the Cardinal Gracias High School, St. Joseph The Workers Church and a social Service center (Bandra East Community Center) in Bandra East. It also manages a parish and social service center in Nerul, besides a priest home in Mangalore."
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This seems to be the wiki page of the Norbertine order: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premonstratensians
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In India, this order seems to have first set up base in Jabalpur. Here's the associated webpage: http://www.canonryofjamtara.com/index.php/page/details/38/history-of-st.-norbert-abbey.
An extract from it, "The first three Norbertines arrived on Indian soil in 1923 as Missionaries from the Abbey of Berne, the Netherlands."
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[In response to a comment implying that direct experience is superior to study and book knowledge, I wrote:]
I agree based on my direct experience of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba physical form :-)
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From https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2213570712192827 (slightly edited) dated 13th July 2018
[Shared linked article: Inside the lives of Mongolia's 'millennial monks,' who play basketball, pray for 12 hours a day, and hold the fate of their religion in their hands, https://www.businessinsider.in/Inside-the-lives-of-Mongolias-millennial-monks-who-play-basketball-pray-for-12-hours-a-day-and-hold-the-fate-of-their-religion-in-their-hands/articleshow/64875261.cms, 5th July 2018]
Very interesting!
A small extract from it:
* Thousands of Buddhist monks in Mongolia were killed under Communist leadership in the 1930s.
* Today's millennial generation is the first to come of age since democracy was introduced, and young monks are finding a new set of challenges to keep their religion alive.
* The leaders of one revered monastery are in their 20s and 30s, and are struggling to attract new students.
--- end extract ---
Ravi: Hmm. So the anti-religion murderous fanaticism of the forms of communism in China & Russia in the 1930s were NOT able to root out Buddhist religion in Mongolia. But it severely dented it. Now it is getting revived. Wonderful to know that. My prayers to God to shower His Grace in reviving Buddhism in Mongolia.
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From my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2209385882611310, dated 9th July:
[Shared Terry Reis Kennedy post: https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217067662382528 titled, "THE SOUL IS NOT LOCATED INSIDE YOUR BODY :Realise Atma Thathwa By Constant Practice" "Sri Sathya Sai Baba Prasanthi Nilayam 20 July 2009"]
High-Level spirituality discourse of Bhagavan but explained in simple terms. That was the spiritual genius of Bhagavan as a spiritual teacher. Enjoyed reading (or rather re-reading) this.
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My comments in a non-public FB post of somebody else (slightly edited):
My personal experience with Sathya Sai (physical form), my beloved and revered Gurudev, is that his teachings, his discourses many of them heard live by me at Sai Kulwant Hall, Prasanthi Nilayam, and his personal guidance via gestures at Darshan were of tremendous help to me in my spiritual journey. Approval of what I was doing that was good for me and disapproval of what I was getting drawn to but was bad for me, was conveyed via the look and facial/body gesture typically (he spoke to me only once - approvingly), sometimes backed by a discourse on that day or within the next few days.
It was truly extraordinary to see how he would read my thoughts and know what I had done. Awesome divine power!
It was after he gave up his physical body in April 2011 that I truly understood how much his looks and gestures at Darshan mattered to me for my spiritual journey. Now I had no physical person who I interacted with who had anywhere close to such divine powers backed by divine spiritual knowledge. If I got drawn to something that I knew was taking me away from higher spiritual levels, there was nobody to stop me with one angry look! If I had gained some deep spiritual insight there was nobody to confirm and approve of that insight with one lovely smile and/or Abhaya Hasta (raised open palm which is a combination of blessing and indicating that one should not fear).
I had lost that precious contact with physical form of my beloved and revered Gurudev, and was almost like a spiritual orphan! I had to learn to depend on my own limited spiritual understanding and spiritual writings and videos of Sathya Sai and other spiritual masters/scripture, which surely help but do not come close to that very easy way with which I could get signs of approval & disapproval from my beloved Gurudev during daily Darshan, sometimes backed with a relevant discourse delivered either on the same day or within the next few days.
I am deeply grateful to (physical form) Sathya Sai for having guided me in my spiritual journey. And so I would strongly recommend spiritual aspirants to have an appropriate living (physical form) Guru. But then if they cannot find an appropriate/suitable living Guru it is better to rely on the inner Guru (inner voice) than follow a Guru that one is not comfortable with and that one has serious doubts about.
Bro. --Name-snipped--, regarding your main question, "i am thinking of abandoning sathya sai baba because of all the infighting and be at peace with sri M. what do you think ?": There is no doubt that currently the Sathya Sai movement is facing significant challenges including the challenge of the false claim so called communicator and his big group of supporters. But then such seems to be the history of spiritual movements founded by great charismatic miracle-man figures. In the case of Lord Jesus Christ, it was a far worse situation as the early Christians were being physically persecuted!
Some of us (like me) chose to get into the struggle to resist the dilution and distortion of the legacy and memories of Sathya Sai by the false claim so called communicator. I don't care if I lose all peace. I cannot remain as an idle witness to my beloved Gurudev's legacy being diluted and corrupted in this fashion. I view it as my bounden duty to him for all that I have gained from him, to resist such dilution and corruption. Further, I think my efforts would help at least some Sathya Sai devotees now and in the future (some have already thanked me saying that it helped them), from getting misguided by this cheap imitator's false communicator claims.
In your case bro. --Name-snipped--, if you desire peace then I think you can simply switch off from engaging in discussions related to the cheap imitator. And going to a more peaceful spiritual group may help you. No harm in giving it a shot. But I don't know much about Mr. M to say anything about him or his group/movement.
However, I suggest you don't abandon Sathya Sai due to Sathya Sai movement issues. You can learn to keep them separate. You could stay anchored to Sathya Sai teachings and divinity even if you move away from Sathya Sai movement.
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Good to know that your inner connection to Sai Baba is still strong.
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No offense meant, bro. --Name-snipped-- but words like "i am thinking of abandoning sathya sai baba ..." usually mean a crisis of faith. I have seen some guys in Puttaparthi face such crisis of faith and it was not pretty. The words you used made me wonder whether you were facing such a crisis of faith in Sathya Sai Baba! That's why I reacted the way I did.
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On public FB post of Terry Reis Kennedy, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217010417951453, dated 6th July 2018, I made the following comments:
For me the key questions are:
Are they in their public literature promoting the FALSE CLAIM of Muddenahalli group that Madhusudan Rao Naidu is a so called communicator of Sathya Sai? If so, do we have documentary evidence of the same? I would like to share such documentary evidence of it along with my view that Madhusudan Naidu's claim is a FALSE CLAIM on my social media channels.
And then it would be very interesting to know what official USA Sai orgn. is doing/going to do about this.
As I have mentioned earlier, I have visited Boston umpteen times when I was living in the USA in Mass/New Hampshire in the 1980s. I have a lot of happy memories of Boston and Massachusetts. As gratitude for the good times I have had there, I feel obliged to do my bit to inform concerned Massachusetts authorities via the USA Embassy in India, of Madhusudan Naidu's FALSE CLAIM being promoted by the Massachusetts based NGO (PRASHANTHI CENTER FOR HUMAN DEVELOPMENT), if that is the case and we have related documentary evidence to show concerned USA authorities.
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Terry Reis Kennedy, from what I recall of the incident you mentioned last year, it was a conference event at which a presentation was made. As I understand it, conferences are talk events and networking events. They are given a lot of leeway in terms of freedom of speech and all that, especially when held in an academic campus (even if the event itself was not an academic event).
I think that establishing an NGO in Massachusetts which promotes Muddenahalli subtle body and/or Madhusudan Naidu is a much more concrete and serious matter. I think then the organization founders and heads are answerable to Massachusetts government authorities, and are also answerable via the media, to the people of Mass.
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And thanks for your response and all the great work you are doing in this regard Terry Reis Kennedy. Jai Sai Ram!
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On public Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217005789915755, dated 5th July 2018, I wrote:
Well said Terry with appropriate quotes of Bhagavan on the sickness of mad pursuit of money.
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My comment dated 31st July 2018 in https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2236133183269913
The Andhra Pradesh govt. has provided vital infrastucture facilities support to Puttaparthi town including SSSCT run Prasanthi Nilayam ashram system. These include decent supply of electric power, (very vital) water to Puttaparthi from Hundri Neeva scheme, maintaining a peaceful town using the police etc. at a time when Andhra Pradesh is facing a huge financial crunch situation due to bifurcation in 2014 and loss of the big revenue earning city of Hyderabad.
Some may say that is nothing great! Well, if they visit towns and cities some distance from Puttaparthi, they will come to know about the challenges of life in this drought-prone economically backward district of Anantapur.
I am very grateful to Andhra Pradesh govt. led by Hon'ble CM N.Chandrababu Naidu, for what I have detailed above.
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On Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/vr.ganti.1/videos/10212812966023628/, I wrote on 23rd July:
The big problem is Madhusudan Rao Naidu with his cheap imitation of Sathya Sai, and his misguidance of thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world, using the HOLY NAME of Sathya Sai.
The free educational and medical service work of Muddenahalli group is NOT a problem in general, except for such work being used to promote the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudan Rao Naidu.
...
[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
Well, I don't know about Swami's name being trademarked in India. From my readings and understanding of the matter, it (Sathya Sai name) is protected from improper use as per a law in India as are other names like Ramakrishna Math and Auroville (for details see https://consumeraffairs.nic.in/WriteReadData/userfiles/file/THE%20EMBLEMS%20AND%20NAMES%20ACT,%201950.pdf). That is different from a trademark.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote (slightly edited):]
You raise a valid possibility, --name-snipped--. Essentially, if Muddenahalli group provided detailed financial reports which are audited by an authorized auditor, about their trusts to the public then the public will know how much percentage of donated funds are used for the actual service of the advertised beneficiaries, and how much is used to pay salaries and/or perks for the top management of Muddenahalli group including Madhusudan Naidu and Narasimhamurthy.
But Muddenahalli group have NOT done that, as far as I know. So one cannot rule out the possibility that you have raised (con men using service to society as a cover to extract money from people).
...
But it also has to be said that as far as we know, nobody has filed a successful/upheld as valid police complaint against Muddenahalli group for fraudulently extracting money from them. Even the Mr. Ajit Popat case could NOT be treated that way as I believe Muddenahalli group said that the money Mr. Popat had donated was used to build some school building which was used for service to society work. Therefore, I believe Mr. Popat did not have any case.
...
Oh! Madhusudan Rao Naidu was reported to be in desperate financial straits before his (FALSE CLAIM) medium/communicator role brought him money and fame.
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For this comment: https://www.facebook.com/vr.ganti.1/posts/10212812975383862?comment_id=10212813904327085, I wrote (slightly edited):
Good one --name-snipped--! BTW do you also give Vibhuti and rings? That is very important bro. to create the right impression.
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I am thoroughly enjoying this --name-snipped--. I guess I really love and enjoy satire. While I have not rolled on the floor laughing, your comment has given me lots of joy and laughter. It has made my day! Thanks a ton!
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In case some readers may misunderstand my comments, I would like to clarify that my comments are aimed at the cheap imitator Madhusudan Rao Naidu and his Muddenahalli group led by B.N. Narasimhamurthy.
This Madhusudan Naidu is imitating my beloved and revered Gurudev Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, and thereby misguiding thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world.
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From https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2218296605053571 dated 17th July
Quantity of free service projects done by Muddenahalli group cannot mask the truth that spiritually they are lost as the fundamental basis of Muddenahalli group - Madhusudan Naidu's communicator claim - is false
Given below is a comment I made elsewhere on Facebook:
Sathya Sai physical form focused on quality and NOT quantity. Sathya Sai physical form was very particular about not commercialising his beloved institutions and organization.
Sathya Sai so called subtle body promoted by MBA Madhusudan Naidu and Narasimhamurthy, seem to be focused on MBA business model and talk about quantity while blatantly going against teachings and instructions of Sathya Sai relating to him never speaking through mediums and communicators.
But what I have realized is that some people ****want**** a diluted and distorted form of Sathya Sai, which they prefer to call Sathya Sai (so Madhusudan Rao Naidu is Swami meaning Sathya Sai for so many now in Muddenahalli group). Essentially, there is a market demand for such communicators espousing a diluted and distorted form of Sathya Sai, with some moneyed people flocking to that group perhaps for the additional importance they get in that group due to their big donations.
As free service to society is provided, I think they get a lot of community support and political support from the communities they serve. So Karnataka and Telangana political leaders and ministers are willing to support Muddenahalli group even if they don't really believe in Madhusudan Rao Naidu's communicator claim. I think it will be similar in other parts of the world too.
But I doubt if any respected spiritual leader will endorse Madhusudan Rao Naidu's weird claim of being able to see and communicate with an invisible and inaudible subtle body of Sathya Sai. In particular, I doubt that the Shankaracharyas of important Maths like Sringeri, or other spiritual leaders like Mata Amritanandamayi, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev etc. will publicly support Madhusudan Rao Naidu's weird claim.
They have their group and they seem to like what they do and the communities they serve are getting material benefits. But, to be frank, spiritually I think they are quite lost. And that tragedy is mainly due to B.N. Narasimhamurthy. He will NOT ESCAPE the negative karmic consequences of misguiding so many thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world. He went against direct instructions of Sathya Sai to him not to believe in such medium and communicator claims.
As I have said earlier, it would have been spiritually fine if Narasimhamurthy had done his preaching as Narasimhamurthy Baba and Madhusudan Naidu had done it as Madhu Baba. But they have misused the name of their Guru, Sathya Sai, and diluted and distorted His legacy. Time will surely not judge them in a good light irrespective of how many service to society projects they do, because of this dilution and distortion they have done to the memories and legacy of Kali Yuga Avatar, Shiva-Shakti Swarupa, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
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[The above comment was made on this comment in this post: https://www.facebook.com/yaani.drucker/posts/10156507380855477?comment_id=10156507526310477]
On FB post https://www.facebook.com/yaani.drucker/posts/10156505705120477, I wrote on 16th July:
All the best to you sister Yaani Drucker with your planned efforts to consider serving the folks in Mississippi (Tom Sawyer territory, if I recall correctly :-) ) through Muddenahalli group proposed hospital.
For me though, the big hassle is that the medical service efforts would be done under the umbrella of Muddenahalli group which promotes the FALSE CLAIM of Madhusudan Rao Naidu of being a so called communicator (with the claim now going to the extent of Swami entering his body when he does his Lingodbhavam). I think that would present a distorted view of our beloved Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, to the good folks of Mississippi. Their understanding of Bhagavan would get reduced to Madhusudan Rao Naidu which would be a real tragedy.
The great apostles of Lord Jesus Christ, like Peter, Matthew, Thomas and Paul (as you would know, Paul did not have direct interactions with Jesus and initially persecuted the early Christians before having a transformative experience on the road to Damascus) did extraordinary work to share the message of Jesus across not only Palestine but other parts of Asia including India, as well as Europe. [There are very credible articles that say that Thomas came to Kerala, India which had a Jewish trading community then, and started the Indian Syrian Christian group there in the first century AD, which continues to flourish to this day in Kerala and other parts of India.]
But in my limited readings of the work of these great apostles of Lord Jesus Christ, none of them claimed to be a chosen communicator of Jesus Christ who could see some so called subtle body of Jesus and communicate with him. So they were able to spread the message of Jesus without need for such "chosen communicator" stuff.
That Madhusudan Rao Naidu is doing this, and that it is being endorsed by Muddenahalli Group elders including B.N. Narasimhamurthy, is tragic, in my considered opinion.
I shudder to think about how some fiery evangelical preachers of the Bible belt of the USA which includes Mississippi, I believe, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Belt, will react to Madhusudan Rao Naidu's claim if and when his claim gets known there through the proposed free service hospital.
In my view, it would be far more acceptable to the good folks in Mississippi, USA, if Muddenahalli group has a free service hospital there WITHOUT any so called communicator stuff from Madhusudan Rao Naidu.
But that's just my view. You are free to ignore it :-) , as I am quite sure you will :-) .
Anyway, all the best with your plan to serve the good folks in Mississippi, USA.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
About Paul: Yes, I have read about the view that Paul's teachings and instructions varied somewhat from Jesus's teachings and instructions. But it is a sensitive topic as Paul is revered as one of great apostles of Christianity.
I don't know enough to agree to your point that Paul is the one responsible for church teaching that "only those who believe Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven" and that all others (including Hindus like me :-) ) will go to hell. Perhaps a lot of those details are buried in the early history of Christianity. Perhaps as Roman emperor Constantine embraced Christianity a lot was introduced into the New Testament and other sacred books of the Church which were attributed to big figures like Paul, to have more sanctity among the followers. I think the combining of state power (Roman empire) with the church, may have had a lot to do with such very aggressive statements.
Anyway, I don't think most Christian preachers in the world today, barring a few fundamentalist ones, would lay stress on this aspect of Christian doctrine that "only those who believe Jesus died for their sins will go to heaven".
BTW Hindu religious scripture also has some rather nasty stuff like this too. But in today's early 21st century Hinduism most Hinduism teachers/preachers ignore such nasty stuff. Essentially, Hinduism seems to have gone through a period of great reform in the past few centuries. Perhaps Christianity too has gone through a lot of reform in the past few centuries.
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About how Bible Belt fiery evangelical preachers would view Madhusudan Naidu's so called communicator claim: One has to wait and see to know for sure. But having seen quite a few videos about such preachers, I am quite sure that they will be pretty shocked to be told that Madhusudan Naidu is able to see a "subtle form" of an Indian Guru and communicate with that "subtle form" but that that "subtle form" is invisible and inaudible to them!
I wouldn't be surprised if such preachers start viewing the so called "subtle form" as a ghost and I doubt they will view it as a benign one!
I wonder whether you have lived in the Bible Belt heartland in states like Texas and Tennessee. I have never been there. But I have some friends and acquaintances who have lived there. I recall at least one of them telling me that it is very, very different (in terms of their rigid beliefs in the Christian group they belong to) from places like New England and California (where I have lived) or New York, which are more tolerant and liberal about religious pluralism and unconventional religious/spiritual beliefs.
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[In response to a comment, I wrote:]
Oh! Some months ago, somebody else (from Holland) had told me about her father having the same attitude towards her becoming a devotee of Swami. I was pretty shocked to hear that from somebody in person. I mean, it was one thing to read about it in articles and books. But to hear it from a real person whose father strongly felt that way, really shocked me.
Hmm. So you had to go through that experience, sister Yaani Drucker. That would have been rough! Guys like me who were born in India as Hindus had a much more smoother pathway towards becoming a devotee of Swami. No wonder, Swami was so appreciative of the devotion of some non-Indian (foreign) devotees from faiths other than Hinduism.
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BTW I studied for 3 years (8th Std. to 10th Std.) in a Dutch-Indian Catholic order run school in Bombay. From its history page here: https://cardinalgraciashighschool.org/page/6/, "Cardinal Gracias High School was founded on 12th June 1961 and has been managed by the Norbertine Fathers since 1964. The Nortbertine Fathers vowed to seek Christ by living in common, sharing all things in holy poverty, and dedicating themselves to ministering to God’s People. The St. Norbertine Priory in Mumbai manages the Cardinal Gracias High School, St. Joseph The Workers Church and a social Service center (Bandra East Community Center) in Bandra East. It also manages a parish and social service center in Nerul, besides a priest home in Mangalore."
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This seems to be the wiki page of the Norbertine order: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premonstratensians
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In India, this order seems to have first set up base in Jabalpur. Here's the associated webpage: http://www.canonryofjamtara.com/index.php/page/details/38/history-of-st.-norbert-abbey.
An extract from it, "The first three Norbertines arrived on Indian soil in 1923 as Missionaries from the Abbey of Berne, the Netherlands."
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[In response to a comment implying that direct experience is superior to study and book knowledge, I wrote:]
I agree based on my direct experience of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba physical form :-)
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From https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2213570712192827 (slightly edited) dated 13th July 2018
[Shared linked article: Inside the lives of Mongolia's 'millennial monks,' who play basketball, pray for 12 hours a day, and hold the fate of their religion in their hands, https://www.businessinsider.in/Inside-the-lives-of-Mongolias-millennial-monks-who-play-basketball-pray-for-12-hours-a-day-and-hold-the-fate-of-their-religion-in-their-hands/articleshow/64875261.cms, 5th July 2018]
Very interesting!
A small extract from it:
* Thousands of Buddhist monks in Mongolia were killed under Communist leadership in the 1930s.
* Today's millennial generation is the first to come of age since democracy was introduced, and young monks are finding a new set of challenges to keep their religion alive.
* The leaders of one revered monastery are in their 20s and 30s, and are struggling to attract new students.
--- end extract ---
Ravi: Hmm. So the anti-religion murderous fanaticism of the forms of communism in China & Russia in the 1930s were NOT able to root out Buddhist religion in Mongolia. But it severely dented it. Now it is getting revived. Wonderful to know that. My prayers to God to shower His Grace in reviving Buddhism in Mongolia.
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From my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2209385882611310, dated 9th July:
[Shared Terry Reis Kennedy post: https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217067662382528 titled, "THE SOUL IS NOT LOCATED INSIDE YOUR BODY :Realise Atma Thathwa By Constant Practice" "Sri Sathya Sai Baba Prasanthi Nilayam 20 July 2009"]
High-Level spirituality discourse of Bhagavan but explained in simple terms. That was the spiritual genius of Bhagavan as a spiritual teacher. Enjoyed reading (or rather re-reading) this.
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My comments in a non-public FB post of somebody else (slightly edited):
My personal experience with Sathya Sai (physical form), my beloved and revered Gurudev, is that his teachings, his discourses many of them heard live by me at Sai Kulwant Hall, Prasanthi Nilayam, and his personal guidance via gestures at Darshan were of tremendous help to me in my spiritual journey. Approval of what I was doing that was good for me and disapproval of what I was getting drawn to but was bad for me, was conveyed via the look and facial/body gesture typically (he spoke to me only once - approvingly), sometimes backed by a discourse on that day or within the next few days.
It was truly extraordinary to see how he would read my thoughts and know what I had done. Awesome divine power!
It was after he gave up his physical body in April 2011 that I truly understood how much his looks and gestures at Darshan mattered to me for my spiritual journey. Now I had no physical person who I interacted with who had anywhere close to such divine powers backed by divine spiritual knowledge. If I got drawn to something that I knew was taking me away from higher spiritual levels, there was nobody to stop me with one angry look! If I had gained some deep spiritual insight there was nobody to confirm and approve of that insight with one lovely smile and/or Abhaya Hasta (raised open palm which is a combination of blessing and indicating that one should not fear).
I had lost that precious contact with physical form of my beloved and revered Gurudev, and was almost like a spiritual orphan! I had to learn to depend on my own limited spiritual understanding and spiritual writings and videos of Sathya Sai and other spiritual masters/scripture, which surely help but do not come close to that very easy way with which I could get signs of approval & disapproval from my beloved Gurudev during daily Darshan, sometimes backed with a relevant discourse delivered either on the same day or within the next few days.
I am deeply grateful to (physical form) Sathya Sai for having guided me in my spiritual journey. And so I would strongly recommend spiritual aspirants to have an appropriate living (physical form) Guru. But then if they cannot find an appropriate/suitable living Guru it is better to rely on the inner Guru (inner voice) than follow a Guru that one is not comfortable with and that one has serious doubts about.
Bro. --Name-snipped--, regarding your main question, "i am thinking of abandoning sathya sai baba because of all the infighting and be at peace with sri M. what do you think ?": There is no doubt that currently the Sathya Sai movement is facing significant challenges including the challenge of the false claim so called communicator and his big group of supporters. But then such seems to be the history of spiritual movements founded by great charismatic miracle-man figures. In the case of Lord Jesus Christ, it was a far worse situation as the early Christians were being physically persecuted!
Some of us (like me) chose to get into the struggle to resist the dilution and distortion of the legacy and memories of Sathya Sai by the false claim so called communicator. I don't care if I lose all peace. I cannot remain as an idle witness to my beloved Gurudev's legacy being diluted and corrupted in this fashion. I view it as my bounden duty to him for all that I have gained from him, to resist such dilution and corruption. Further, I think my efforts would help at least some Sathya Sai devotees now and in the future (some have already thanked me saying that it helped them), from getting misguided by this cheap imitator's false communicator claims.
In your case bro. --Name-snipped--, if you desire peace then I think you can simply switch off from engaging in discussions related to the cheap imitator. And going to a more peaceful spiritual group may help you. No harm in giving it a shot. But I don't know much about Mr. M to say anything about him or his group/movement.
However, I suggest you don't abandon Sathya Sai due to Sathya Sai movement issues. You can learn to keep them separate. You could stay anchored to Sathya Sai teachings and divinity even if you move away from Sathya Sai movement.
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Good to know that your inner connection to Sai Baba is still strong.
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No offense meant, bro. --Name-snipped-- but words like "i am thinking of abandoning sathya sai baba ..." usually mean a crisis of faith. I have seen some guys in Puttaparthi face such crisis of faith and it was not pretty. The words you used made me wonder whether you were facing such a crisis of faith in Sathya Sai Baba! That's why I reacted the way I did.
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On public FB post of Terry Reis Kennedy, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217010417951453, dated 6th July 2018, I made the following comments:
For me the key questions are:
Are they in their public literature promoting the FALSE CLAIM of Muddenahalli group that Madhusudan Rao Naidu is a so called communicator of Sathya Sai? If so, do we have documentary evidence of the same? I would like to share such documentary evidence of it along with my view that Madhusudan Naidu's claim is a FALSE CLAIM on my social media channels.
And then it would be very interesting to know what official USA Sai orgn. is doing/going to do about this.
As I have mentioned earlier, I have visited Boston umpteen times when I was living in the USA in Mass/New Hampshire in the 1980s. I have a lot of happy memories of Boston and Massachusetts. As gratitude for the good times I have had there, I feel obliged to do my bit to inform concerned Massachusetts authorities via the USA Embassy in India, of Madhusudan Naidu's FALSE CLAIM being promoted by the Massachusetts based NGO (PRASHANTHI CENTER FOR HUMAN DEVELOPMENT), if that is the case and we have related documentary evidence to show concerned USA authorities.
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Terry Reis Kennedy, from what I recall of the incident you mentioned last year, it was a conference event at which a presentation was made. As I understand it, conferences are talk events and networking events. They are given a lot of leeway in terms of freedom of speech and all that, especially when held in an academic campus (even if the event itself was not an academic event).
I think that establishing an NGO in Massachusetts which promotes Muddenahalli subtle body and/or Madhusudan Naidu is a much more concrete and serious matter. I think then the organization founders and heads are answerable to Massachusetts government authorities, and are also answerable via the media, to the people of Mass.
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And thanks for your response and all the great work you are doing in this regard Terry Reis Kennedy. Jai Sai Ram!
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On public Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10217005789915755, dated 5th July 2018, I wrote:
Well said Terry with appropriate quotes of Bhagavan on the sickness of mad pursuit of money.
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