Public statement regretting lapse in discrimination by noted Sai devotees who briefly succumbed to Muddenahalli group spiritual fraud will help preserve fair legacy of theirs
6 Jun. 2024: A sensitive comment has been snipped.
23rd April 2020 Update: I had an inner urge to name-snip the names of some person(s) in this post and so have done so.
Yesterday afternoon in the main road of Puttaparthi (outside ashram), I had a small one-to-one interaction with an elder Sai devotee who had come under the sway of spiritual fraud Madhusudan Naidu for a brief period some years ago, after which he now seems to have kept away from Madhusudan Naidu and Muddenahalli group. He told me that he does not go there now and I believe what he told me to be true.
I suggested to him that he could make a public statement about him now keeping away from Madhusudan Naidu (spiritual fraud) and Muddenahalli (MDH) group. While I don't think I told him specifically that he should say in it that it was a mistake on his part to get associated with Madhusudan Naidu (spiritual fraud) and MDH group, I think I implied it. I also told him that Aravind Balasubramanya, Sai university alumnus and Radio Sai staff, had made such a public statement some years ago. He was not aware that Aravind Balasubramanya had associated with Muddenahalli group for a short time and then disassociated, and he was not aware of the public statement that Aravind Balasubramanya had made.
I either told him or implied to him that he could do something similar to what Aravind Balasubramanya had done in his public statement.
Finally I told him that I was sorry if anything I said had hurt him. I also said that I respect him as an elder who has served Swami for many years (decades, I believe).
He told me that he would think about the matter. [Note that our conversation touched upon some other things too which are not covered in this post.]
Later yesterday evening/night, I saw that a Facebook (FB) friend had liked my 4th May 2016 post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1737279139821989, about Aravind Balasubramanya's statement on 3rd May 2016 (same statement that I have referred to above)! Today, perhaps as that activity of an FB friend liking the over two and half years ago post got reported on walls of some other FB friends of mine, two other FB friends liked it too (possibly today morning sometime).
So a real/physical world one-to-one interaction I had with the Sai devotee elder seems to have had an impact on my Facebook (social media/virtual) world. And there have been other occasions where something I have said on Facebook and blog (social media) has impacted my real/physical world life. I guess as I now have been a social media writer on controversial Muddenahalli matter for close to four years now, which seems to interest many readers (though only a few interact with comments and likes), there is a lot of interplay between my real life in Puttaparthi and my social media (virtual) life.
I would like to say something more about such public statements by noted Sai devotees who succumbed to Madhusudan Naidu and/or Muddenahalli group FALSE CLAIMS and spiritual fraud for a brief period and then have moved away from them (MDH group).
I think for those Sai devotees who have been in the Sai fraternity public eye as speakers, writers and teachers on/of Sathya Sai teachings and life, and spirituality in general, but who had temporarily come under the spiritual fraud spell of MDH group, such public statements go a long way in preserving a fair legacy of theirs. Lack of a public statement by such noted Sai devotees will keep their legacy under a cloud for Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees. I think that is the unpleasant truth. So I think it would be wise on part of such noted Sai devotees (speakers, writers & teachers) who temporarily came under bad spell of Muddenahalli spiritual fraud but later saw the light and moved away from them, to make a public statement about it where they regret their lapse in discrimination/judgement about Madhusudan Naidu and Muddenahalli group spiritual fraud which goes against the public teachings and instructions of our beloved and revered Gurudev (spiritual master) Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
I am quite sure that such public statements will be well received by Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees, and it will play a significant role in such Sai devotees being more accepted and more trusted by Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees in future.
=================================================
Given below are some comment exchanges on my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2419936654889564, associated with this post:
Aravind Balasubramanyam wrote: "I mean, "aravind had associated with the MDH group for a short time" is incorrect! There was no Madhu, tigrett, srinivas etc. What "group" then?
I don't like how the post misleads the reader into thinking that I was associated for a while and I came out of the group.
Reading my original post makes so much sense. No wonder the elder was surprised with what was said. It is a lie and am disappointed.
I hope the post is suitably edited. In fact, it is better to simply quote what I wrote."
I (Ravi) responded:
You did visit them and speak there. If that is not association what else is it?
...
You write in your post, "I also wrote an article about the first school he planned to start." He being Narasimhamurthy. Is that not association and support?
...
You write in your post, "So, when Narasimhamoorthy sir called me and said,
“There are devotees from Singapore coming over for a retreat at Muddenahalli. Would you speak for an hour about your experiences? I will arrange a taxi for your to and fro travel. Get your parents as well... You will also be permitted to visit Swami’s room here...”
Naturally, I was very excited and I agreed. I also went there and spoke to a group of devotees about my experiences with Swami as His student."
Is that not association with Muddenahalli group? Of course it is. You seem to have a problem with accepting the truth and so you are referring to what I said as a lie. [Oh you seem to have edited it now. I don't see the word lie.]
I think the words association and short time I have used in my post are correct.
...
And I have linked to my post which links to your post. So interested readers can easily see your original post.
...
The lie part has reappeared in Aravind Balasubramanya's comment.
----
I (Ravi) wrote (slightly edited):
I have been blocked by Aravind Balasubramanya as he is upset with my using the words that he had associated with Muddenahalli group for a brief time. He put up a comment to which I have responded quoting from his original post (which is no longer viewable to me as he has blocked me).
If readers feel that my using the words "Aravind Balasubramanya had associated with Muddenahalli group for a short time and then disassociated", given the quotes I have provided in the comment exchange with him above (inner level comments), I would like to discuss it with them.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I think in this Muddenahalli and Narasimhamurthy matter, nobody should consider himself/herself above being questioned. It is this arrogance that I am a famous person and I have had so much physical interactions with Swami and all that, that leads some to believe that other Sai devotees cannot question them on matters relating to them having associated with Muddenahalli group in the past.
Nelson Mandela and his supporters adopted a "Truth and Reconciliation" approach after apartheid was removed in South Africa as a way for people to know the truth and then work together in South Africa.
I think it should be the same for Prasanthi Nilayam. Those who associated with Muddenahalli in the past by visiting them and giving an impression to devotees there that they support Narasimhamurthy, but later came out of that spell, should share it with Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees.
My view is that in spirituality, it is acceptance of truth and genuine repentance that leads to spiritual growth. Arrogantly trying to deny the truth can only get one into psychological denial traps, and stunt one's spiritual growth.
I also felt it appropriate to mention that Aravind Balasubramanya put up his original post on the matter (in May 2016), only in the context of Muddenahalli group using a screenshot of him "addressing a gathering there" to convey the ***false*** view that he was supportive of them in a later period when that was not the case. His statement says that he visited them and spoke there (which in my view is associating with them), and was interacting with them for a short while in 2013 and then he seems to have got out of that bad spell that he had fallen into.
I think people who briefly got caught up in MDH group and are out now, should come forward voluntarily and make public statements about it (and not because MDH group puts up some pic/video showing that they had been with them in the past). That would be a spiritually honest and brave and noble thing to do.
Hiding such things and/or arrogantly trying to call people who speak about such things liars are NOT spiritually honest, brave and noble things to do, in my considered opinion.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I was wondering what should be the appropriate action for me to do in response to Aravind Balasubramanya's aggression against me for speaking the truth, and for blocking me on Facebook.
Note that he was not a Facebook friend of mine. He had unfriended me some time back.
I decided that the best response from my side is to block him too on Facebook. And I did that just a little while back.
We don't interact at individual level when we come across each other in Puttaparthi. So no change there.
----
In response to comment, "This is really very serious of --Name1-snipped-- who was incharge of students", I wrote:
He is the biggest traitor of the Sai university and has done ****great damage**** to spiritual mission of Sai university (SSSIHL).
----
In response to comment, "it appears that you forgot to mention about PHYLLIS Crystal", I wrote (slightly edited):
Yes her case is a good one of somebody who came under their spell and then distanced herself publicly from them.
----
In response to comment (slightly edited), "There were couple of notes about PHYLLIS Crystal (I had) put up(.) If I recall she suffered a lot due to some black magic MADHU was doing on her during her last days", I wrote (slightly edited):
Those were the allegations (and strong allegations). But, unfortunately, there is a lot of mystery about what happened in her last days. And that is a matter of great sadness. I mean, she was such a committed devotee and we could not really know how well she was cared for, in her last days.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I have digressed to an underlying bullying culture away from the topic of the original post. I do feel that the underlying culture issue must be addressed for the good of Prasanthi Nilayam system. But I think I have said enough on the topic. I don't plan to say anything further on this post unless people comment and I feel I have to respond.
I would like to also say that my personal experience of Bhagavan was that he was willing to struggle and push his physically aging body to uphold Sathya & Dharma and to teach Sathya and Dharma. This was in 2010 when he was physically quite down.
It was a transformative experience for me to directly experience how much Bhagavan cared about people having a proper understanding of Sathya & Dharma. Till my dying breath, I will not forget that dedication that Bhagavan showed to this mission of his, even when his physical body was really, really down.
I earnestly pray that Bhagavan's core mission and core message of Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara, which is the motto of the Sai university, flourishes in Prasanthi Nilayam ashram and in the Sathya Sai movement worldwide for which Prasanthi Nilayam is the main centre. Jai Sai Ram!
----
[There was one comment on my Facebook post by a person who was saying that association was too strong a word for what Aravind Balasubramanya had done. I wanted to respond to her comment later after seeing comments from others. Nobody else commented on this aspect (association word being appropriate or not). Further, the original commenter also added another comment later saying that the focus should remain on original intent of the post and not result in people blocking and getting blocked. I have decided not to respond to her comment about association being too strong a word as I think my response may drag the discussion further.]
Yesterday afternoon in the main road of Puttaparthi (outside ashram), I had a small one-to-one interaction with an elder Sai devotee who had come under the sway of spiritual fraud Madhusudan Naidu for a brief period some years ago, after which he now seems to have kept away from Madhusudan Naidu and Muddenahalli group. He told me that he does not go there now and I believe what he told me to be true.
I suggested to him that he could make a public statement about him now keeping away from Madhusudan Naidu (spiritual fraud) and Muddenahalli (MDH) group. While I don't think I told him specifically that he should say in it that it was a mistake on his part to get associated with Madhusudan Naidu (spiritual fraud) and MDH group, I think I implied it. I also told him that Aravind Balasubramanya, Sai university alumnus and Radio Sai staff, had made such a public statement some years ago. He was not aware that Aravind Balasubramanya had associated with Muddenahalli group for a short time and then disassociated, and he was not aware of the public statement that Aravind Balasubramanya had made.
I either told him or implied to him that he could do something similar to what Aravind Balasubramanya had done in his public statement.
Finally I told him that I was sorry if anything I said had hurt him. I also said that I respect him as an elder who has served Swami for many years (decades, I believe).
He told me that he would think about the matter. [Note that our conversation touched upon some other things too which are not covered in this post.]
Later yesterday evening/night, I saw that a Facebook (FB) friend had liked my 4th May 2016 post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/1737279139821989, about Aravind Balasubramanya's statement on 3rd May 2016 (same statement that I have referred to above)! Today, perhaps as that activity of an FB friend liking the over two and half years ago post got reported on walls of some other FB friends of mine, two other FB friends liked it too (possibly today morning sometime).
So a real/physical world one-to-one interaction I had with the Sai devotee elder seems to have had an impact on my Facebook (social media/virtual) world. And there have been other occasions where something I have said on Facebook and blog (social media) has impacted my real/physical world life. I guess as I now have been a social media writer on controversial Muddenahalli matter for close to four years now, which seems to interest many readers (though only a few interact with comments and likes), there is a lot of interplay between my real life in Puttaparthi and my social media (virtual) life.
I would like to say something more about such public statements by noted Sai devotees who succumbed to Madhusudan Naidu and/or Muddenahalli group FALSE CLAIMS and spiritual fraud for a brief period and then have moved away from them (MDH group).
I think for those Sai devotees who have been in the Sai fraternity public eye as speakers, writers and teachers on/of Sathya Sai teachings and life, and spirituality in general, but who had temporarily come under the spiritual fraud spell of MDH group, such public statements go a long way in preserving a fair legacy of theirs. Lack of a public statement by such noted Sai devotees will keep their legacy under a cloud for Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees. I think that is the unpleasant truth. So I think it would be wise on part of such noted Sai devotees (speakers, writers & teachers) who temporarily came under bad spell of Muddenahalli spiritual fraud but later saw the light and moved away from them, to make a public statement about it where they regret their lapse in discrimination/judgement about Madhusudan Naidu and Muddenahalli group spiritual fraud which goes against the public teachings and instructions of our beloved and revered Gurudev (spiritual master) Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.
I am quite sure that such public statements will be well received by Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees, and it will play a significant role in such Sai devotees being more accepted and more trusted by Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees in future.
=================================================
Given below are some comment exchanges on my Facebook post, https://www.facebook.com/ravi.s.iyer.7/posts/2419936654889564, associated with this post:
Aravind Balasubramanyam wrote: "I mean, "aravind had associated with the MDH group for a short time" is incorrect! There was no Madhu, tigrett, srinivas etc. What "group" then?
I don't like how the post misleads the reader into thinking that I was associated for a while and I came out of the group.
Reading my original post makes so much sense. No wonder the elder was surprised with what was said. It is a lie and am disappointed.
I hope the post is suitably edited. In fact, it is better to simply quote what I wrote."
I (Ravi) responded:
You did visit them and speak there. If that is not association what else is it?
...
You write in your post, "I also wrote an article about the first school he planned to start." He being Narasimhamurthy. Is that not association and support?
...
You write in your post, "So, when Narasimhamoorthy sir called me and said,
“There are devotees from Singapore coming over for a retreat at Muddenahalli. Would you speak for an hour about your experiences? I will arrange a taxi for your to and fro travel. Get your parents as well... You will also be permitted to visit Swami’s room here...”
Naturally, I was very excited and I agreed. I also went there and spoke to a group of devotees about my experiences with Swami as His student."
Is that not association with Muddenahalli group? Of course it is. You seem to have a problem with accepting the truth and so you are referring to what I said as a lie. [Oh you seem to have edited it now. I don't see the word lie.]
I think the words association and short time I have used in my post are correct.
...
And I have linked to my post which links to your post. So interested readers can easily see your original post.
...
The lie part has reappeared in Aravind Balasubramanya's comment.
----
I (Ravi) wrote (slightly edited):
I have been blocked by Aravind Balasubramanya as he is upset with my using the words that he had associated with Muddenahalli group for a brief time. He put up a comment to which I have responded quoting from his original post (which is no longer viewable to me as he has blocked me).
If readers feel that my using the words "Aravind Balasubramanya had associated with Muddenahalli group for a short time and then disassociated", given the quotes I have provided in the comment exchange with him above (inner level comments), I would like to discuss it with them.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I think in this Muddenahalli and Narasimhamurthy matter, nobody should consider himself/herself above being questioned. It is this arrogance that I am a famous person and I have had so much physical interactions with Swami and all that, that leads some to believe that other Sai devotees cannot question them on matters relating to them having associated with Muddenahalli group in the past.
Nelson Mandela and his supporters adopted a "Truth and Reconciliation" approach after apartheid was removed in South Africa as a way for people to know the truth and then work together in South Africa.
I think it should be the same for Prasanthi Nilayam. Those who associated with Muddenahalli in the past by visiting them and giving an impression to devotees there that they support Narasimhamurthy, but later came out of that spell, should share it with Prasanthi Nilayam Sathya Sai devotees.
My view is that in spirituality, it is acceptance of truth and genuine repentance that leads to spiritual growth. Arrogantly trying to deny the truth can only get one into psychological denial traps, and stunt one's spiritual growth.
I also felt it appropriate to mention that Aravind Balasubramanya put up his original post on the matter (in May 2016), only in the context of Muddenahalli group using a screenshot of him "addressing a gathering there" to convey the ***false*** view that he was supportive of them in a later period when that was not the case. His statement says that he visited them and spoke there (which in my view is associating with them), and was interacting with them for a short while in 2013 and then he seems to have got out of that bad spell that he had fallen into.
I think people who briefly got caught up in MDH group and are out now, should come forward voluntarily and make public statements about it (and not because MDH group puts up some pic/video showing that they had been with them in the past). That would be a spiritually honest and brave and noble thing to do.
Hiding such things and/or arrogantly trying to call people who speak about such things liars are NOT spiritually honest, brave and noble things to do, in my considered opinion.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I was wondering what should be the appropriate action for me to do in response to Aravind Balasubramanya's aggression against me for speaking the truth, and for blocking me on Facebook.
Note that he was not a Facebook friend of mine. He had unfriended me some time back.
I decided that the best response from my side is to block him too on Facebook. And I did that just a little while back.
We don't interact at individual level when we come across each other in Puttaparthi. So no change there.
----
In response to comment, "This is really very serious of --Name1-snipped-- who was incharge of students", I wrote:
He is the biggest traitor of the Sai university and has done ****great damage**** to spiritual mission of Sai university (SSSIHL).
----
In response to comment, "it appears that you forgot to mention about PHYLLIS Crystal", I wrote (slightly edited):
Yes her case is a good one of somebody who came under their spell and then distanced herself publicly from them.
----
In response to comment (slightly edited), "There were couple of notes about PHYLLIS Crystal (I had) put up(.) If I recall she suffered a lot due to some black magic MADHU was doing on her during her last days", I wrote (slightly edited):
Those were the allegations (and strong allegations). But, unfortunately, there is a lot of mystery about what happened in her last days. And that is a matter of great sadness. I mean, she was such a committed devotee and we could not really know how well she was cared for, in her last days.
----
I (Ravi) wrote:
I have digressed to an underlying bullying culture away from the topic of the original post. I do feel that the underlying culture issue must be addressed for the good of Prasanthi Nilayam system. But I think I have said enough on the topic. I don't plan to say anything further on this post unless people comment and I feel I have to respond.
I would like to also say that my personal experience of Bhagavan was that he was willing to struggle and push his physically aging body to uphold Sathya & Dharma and to teach Sathya and Dharma. This was in 2010 when he was physically quite down.
It was a transformative experience for me to directly experience how much Bhagavan cared about people having a proper understanding of Sathya & Dharma. Till my dying breath, I will not forget that dedication that Bhagavan showed to this mission of his, even when his physical body was really, really down.
I earnestly pray that Bhagavan's core mission and core message of Sathyam Vada Dharmam Chara, which is the motto of the Sai university, flourishes in Prasanthi Nilayam ashram and in the Sathya Sai movement worldwide for which Prasanthi Nilayam is the main centre. Jai Sai Ram!
----
[There was one comment on my Facebook post by a person who was saying that association was too strong a word for what Aravind Balasubramanya had done. I wanted to respond to her comment later after seeing comments from others. Nobody else commented on this aspect (association word being appropriate or not). Further, the original commenter also added another comment later saying that the focus should remain on original intent of the post and not result in people blocking and getting blocked. I have decided not to respond to her comment about association being too strong a word as I think my response may drag the discussion further.]
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