Madhusudan Naidu should stop imitator and fake communicator of Sathya Sai drama and follow example of USA Megachurch pastor Joel Osteen - A conversation related to this view

Last minor update 29th July 2019

Given below is a comment exchange between Himy Misra and me on public Facebook post: https://www.facebook.com/terry.reiskennedy/posts/10216044950735376 (Himy was OK with public sharing) :

[In response to a comment,] Himy Misra wrote: i dont want to be right. i'd rather there was no fight. its always better to be friends you are right :)
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Himy Misra wrote: actually i have friends here in Mumbai, who are MDH afficionados but i have remained friends with them though i dont go to MDH with them. its possible to have a difference of opinion and still be friends in my humble opinion. they are also OK with me going to Puttaparthy.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Himy Misra, You may have said your above comment in a lighter vein and I was initially thinking of not saying anything. But as the post concerned is with reference to my blog post about hate comments against me, I felt it is appropriate for me to comment.

Your statement, "i dont want to be right. i'd rather there was no fight." is something which I beg to strongly disagree with in the context of Muddenahalli group. No offence meant personally and I hope no offence is taken.

I sure want to be right on their key claim that Madhusudan Rao Naidu is a so called communicator of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba, as that is a very big thing for the Sathya Sai fraternity now, with **serious** division between people who accept and promote that claim and those (including me) who publicly oppose the claim as well as promotion of that claim.

I have invested a great deal of time of mine to investigate Madhusudan Rao Naidu's claim and concluded it to be a FALSE CLAIM. Not only is it a FALSE CLAIM, Madhusudan and his promoters & supporters are misguiding thousands of Sathya Sai devotees across the world misusing Sathya Sai's holy name. They also are diluting and distorting the legacy and memories of Sathya Sai.

So I want to be right and I don't mind if there is a fight on this vital matter of Madhusudan Rao Naidu's so called communicator claim. Actually there is a fight going on with me being one of the figures in the fight who is being viciously targeted by Muddenahalli group trolls (perhaps based in Melbourne, Australia) who are trying to shut me down!

Unity is important especially in our beloved and vital Sathya Sai fraternity/family. But that unity cannot be at the cost of diluting and distorting teaching and instructions of our beloved Lord, Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba! Better to have disunity than permit such dilution and distortion, is my considered view. Thanks. Jai Sai Ram!
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Himy Misra wrote: yes Ravi i am aware you been through a harrowing time so its correct on your part to have a strong view. its totally correct. but i prefer to be flexible on this without compromising on the truth. i mean if there is a window for peace then i'd like to keep it open.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Ah! The key point is 'compromising on the truth'! If you want Unity you will have to compromise on Bhagavan's teachings to reject mediums and communicators, and accept Madhusudan Rao Naidu's claim!
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Himy Misra wrote: yes see,. i already mentioned i would never even consider visiting MDH. and actually i have often stated that Madhu is a non issue for me. i think what really led to this situation is a personality clash and the Madhu drama was brought in afterwards. so the root cause needs to be addressed thats what i am saying if there is to be peace.
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Himy Misra wrote: the root cause being the ego hassle or whatever that happened before Madhu was thrust into the scenario.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: They are not willing to give up on Madhu drama! Why do you think they are not willing to do that?
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: BTW if they give up on Madhu drama then my main issue with them will be ***gone***.
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Himy Misra wrote: yes.
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[In comment below BNM refers to B.N. Narasimhamurthy:]
Himy Misra wrote: because perhaps BNM doesnt want his role highlighted. He seems to be a stubborn man.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: My view is that Madhu drama is what is bringing them donors and donor money. If they stop it, they will not get money so easily and so their grand Seva plans will have to be cut back sharply.
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Himy Misra wrote: no doubt you are right. the Madhu drama is a masterstroke by BNM.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Don't underestimate role of others (behind the curtain) behind Madhu drama. I am told C. Srinivas was a mega plan maker and schemer and would talk about grand plans and schemes to alumni-staff during the days he was associated with Prasanthi Nilayam ashram.
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Himy Misra wrote: yes i agree. and i think Tigrett also plays some key role with his contacts.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): I would like to say something about what I have understood of how USA protestant denomination churches handle such matters and how they maintain a top-level (ecumenical) unity. Would you be interested in knowing my views?
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Himy Misra wrote: yes sure.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: As I understand it, USA protestant ministries operate in a very independent manner as compared to the Catholic church. The Catholic church is a mega organization with the Pope being its head and viewed as God's/Jesus' representative on earth. So the Pope's decision is like a divine command, I guess, to the Catholic church organization and the congregants.

But the protestant ministries do not have any such single human BOSS figure. Further, as I understand it, essentially any person can open his own ministry. So India too, including Andhra Pradesh, has many such independent Christian protestant ministries. With me, so far? Any questions?
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: BTW if other readers have more info. on this matter (including info. correcting any mistakes of mine), I would be glad to know of them.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: As an example of one such Protestant ministry in the USA let me share some info. about one of its big names now - Joel Osteen.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: I am curious though to know whether you have heard of him?
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: BTW I am doing it in this interactive way so that I can better learn from your views, especially on how to deal with this Muddenahalli group split. Doing it as a long comment tends to make it a one-way convo. But then the issue is that both of us have to be free ***at the same time*** for such convo.
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Himy Misra wrote: yes. Joel Osteen. yes i heard of him.
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Himy Misra wrote: sorry for the late reply. some neighbor dropped in.
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Himy Misra wrote: but Joel Osteen makes too much money. i havent heard good things about him sadly.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Good that you have heard of him. So he is quite a big shot who some of us have heard about. But here's some info. from his wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Osteen:

Joel Scott Osteen (born March 5, 1963) is an American televangelist based in Houston, Texas. Osteen's televised sermons are seen by over 7 million viewers weekly and over 20 million monthly in over 100 countries. His sermons also broadcast 24 hours a day on Sirius XM Satellite Radio, Channel 128. Osteen has written seven New York Times Best Sellers.

In 2004, his first book, Your Best Life Now, was released by Time Warner and debuted at the top of The New York Times Best Seller list. The book remained on The New York Times Best Seller list for more than 200 weeks.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): And here's one video - I have seen only first few minutes of it (hope to see it fully - half an hour or so - later on): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXUHHy3mh94. [Video title: Joel Osteen - Take Your Seat]
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): Just see the initial minutes to see the crowd size and the stadium size! BTW I am getting a cup of tea done. So please excuse short gaps.
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Himy Misra wrote: o please enjoy your tea. me too be back in a jiffy.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Here's the stadium pic full of people

[To open pic in higher resolution, right-click on pic followed by open in new tab/window. In new tab/window you may have to click on pic to zoom in.]

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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: BTW I have now heard over 10 minutes of this Joel Osteen sermon (first time I am hearing any of his sermons). And I find much of it to be in line with my belief in God! Yes, the book he and the congregants hold up is the Bible but what he has talked about in these 10 minutes resonate with me.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Now, Joel Osteen's father founded a church and Joel Osteen was encouraged by his father to become a Protestant preacher (Note that Protestant preachers can marry and are typically married with children), which he accepted after avoiding it for some time. His father died six days after Joel Osteen preached his first sermon (as per his wiki page)!
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: My view is that Madhusudan Rao Naidu should follow Joel Osteen! What do you say?

As far as I know, Joel Osteen does not say that he can see and communicate with a subtle body/light body of Jesus Christ! I am sure if he had said that it would be highlighted on his wiki page (and the wiki summary DOES NOT say so).

But I am quite sure Joel Osteen would be claiming to be inspired by the spirit of Jesus Christ.

Madhusudan Rao Naidu should ***STOP*** his communicator drama and start following Joel Osteen with the slight modification that he (Madhusudan) is inspired by spirit of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba.

What do you say, bro. Himy Misra?
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Himy Misra wrote: totally in agreement with you that Madhu should follow an ethical model. the air + chair = baba doesnt jell with me at all.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): And Baba entering into Madhusudan and doing Lingodbhavam! [Not jelling with Himy's view; Himy acknowledged the comment with a laughter (Ha! Ha!) Facebook-icon.]
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Himy Misra wrote: i read somewhere that spirituality is a 50 billion dollar business in India. Madhu can carve a comfortable niche for himself without resorting to any kind of hanky panky.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Now I will ***NOT*** be jealous at all if Madhusudan and group have their satsang in such a big stadium streamed live to a worldwide audience.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Jealousy is a major evil in ashram systems. I have experienced it personally and been a victim of it. I know how damaging it can be.
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Himy Misra wrote: and why would we be jealous of Madhu. if we have to be jealous i'd rather be jealous of Bill Gates. just joking of course. but the point is the question of jealousy doesnt arise.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Well Himy Misra, it may not arise for you and for me. But I am sure there are quite a few Sai university and schools alumni who would be ***burning*** with jealousy looking at the worldwide fame and worldwide large following, as well as the ***luxury lifestyle*** (helicopter rides, plane charters, Bentley) of Madhusudan. This is the plain, unfortunate and unvarnished ****truth****. Don't forget the jealousy that Viswamitra had for Vasishta which grew to such an extent that he wanted to kill Vasishta.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: My only demand of Madhusudan Rao Naidu and Muddenahalli group, is that Madhusudan ***stop*** his FALSE CLAIM of so called communicator of so called subtle body of Bhagavan.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: What do you say, bro. Himy Misra ?
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Himy Misra wrote: yes. you are very clear and of course they had no business to foist Madhu on the world in the first place.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Now there are many such 'Megachurch' ministries in the USA, all of which, I think, are independent organizationally from each other!!!

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_megachurches_in_the_United_States :
This is a list of the largest megachurch churches in the United States with more than 2,000 members. The Hartford Institute's database lists more than 1,300 such Protestant and Evangelical churches in the United States. According to that data, approximately 50 churches on the list have attendance ranging from 10,000 to 47,000.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: These churches/ministries being independent (financially, operationally) removes bureaucratic clogging and nasty politics that is typical in a large monolithic organization like the Roman Catholic Church. That's my view. What do you think?
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Himy Misra wrote: yes sure he can follow the Ministry model or even closer home he can follow sri sri model or jaggi vasudev model.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: The common thing these USA Protestant Megachurches (ministries) have is their belief in Christ and their belief in Bible as their main (and only) scripture.

If Madhusudan gives up communicator drama and follows Joel Osteen's example, then both Madhusudan and his followers (Madhusudan ministry) and official Sai orgn. will have Sathya Sai teachings and instructions as the common base, like the Bible is the common base (with slightly different interpretations at times) between these 1300 odd such Protestant (and Evangelical) Megachurches in the USA.

What do you say, bro Himy?
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Himy Misra wrote (slightly edited): i'm totally ins syn [in sync, I (Ravi) guess] with you Ravi. i think what Madhu is offering is his own interpretation of Sathya Sai Baba's teachings and it seems to go well with his admirers. so thats totally ok as long as he gives up the air + chair thing.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: And then there is a possibility that other Sai school and university alumni will come along starting their own ministries like Madhusudan ministry. So we will have official Sai orgn. and multiple 'unofficial' Sathya Sai ministries headed by Sai school and university alumni, all having a common base of Sathya Sai teachings (but with slightly different interpretations) like the USA megachurches case above.

What do you say?
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Himy Misra wrote (slightly edited): the more the merrier as our MDH friend --Name-snipped-- is fond of saying. totally ok with me.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: In our early 21st century age, forcing everybody to stay in one mega organization does not work well for everybody. Some will agree to the discipline of the mega organization but some will rebel and find many faults with the mega organization bureaucracy and politics. This is the inescapable reality of mega organizations today, whether in commercial field, political field or spiritual & religious field.

So it is better to provide a mechanism for rebels to start their own ministries but without any communicator and imitator drama, like the USA Protestant megachurches scenario. What do you say?
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Himy Misra wrote: people are free to start their own spiritual businesses if they so desire. i do look upon it as a spiritual business though.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Yes, I think the term ministry is appropriate from a Christian orgn. perspective and in our Sai devotees case we can refer to it as just spiritual orgn (or movement if it becomes very big).
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Himy Misra wrote: well people who offer their services free like you did are rare.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Yes. Most staff doing most of the hard work, in most spiritual orgns are family people needing money on a regular basis to run their household.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: One cannot get large numbers of **full-time** free service people and so one cannot build and sustain a spiritual orgn. mainly on free service people.
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Himy Misra wrote: well if it serves a need for some people then its ok to be paid in return i guess. like sri sri and jaggi vasudev charge quite a bit for a 5 day course. they have to pay their staff, office overheads etc etc. madhu though has tasted blood and he has now travelled to over 21 countries, enjoyed luxury and i dont know about all those women on the scene. its very dicey. i am saying this coz i will understand his wanting to continue his run.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: An important point is that Hindu traditions are very open in this matter. Anybody has the freedom to start a Hindu ashram or spiritual orgn., start preaching, gather devotees and donors, and even get into service to society projects. This gives the room for inspirational spiritual people to rise from the Hindu community and grow into spiritual leaders through the organizations they have founded. If this room was not there, perhaps many such spiritual leaders would have been lost to Hindu community over the ages.

Opening up a path for inspired Sai educational system alumni who feel controlled and restricted within official Sai orgn, to open their own spiritual organization ***without*** any imitation or communicator-drama of Sathya Sai, will create the room for some such Sai alumni to become Sai movement leaders who largely base their work on teachings of Sathya Sai (with some differences in interpretation at times like in the case of USA megachurches having some differences in interpretation of Bible).

What do you say?
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Himy Misra wrote (slightly edited): absolutely in agreement with you Ravi. in fact i think i heard of a student called --Name-snipped-- who has his own organization i forget its name.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Now, of course, there will be competition between such orgns for donors (money) and followers, like is the case between Muddenahalli and Prasanthi Nilayam, and like is the case between the various USA megachurches. And that is the case even with various Hindu spiritual organizations in India like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar's orgn. and Sadguru Jaggi Vasudev's orgn.
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Himy Misra wrote (slightly edited): yes and baba ramdev too. in fact patanjali products and sri sri ayurvedic products are competitors like you said (above).
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote (slightly edited): That competition is inescapable now!!! Earlier when Sathya Sai was in physical form, the ***awesome*** ***physical presence*** of Sathya Sai kept everybody together and prevented the big shots (Maharathis like in Maharabharata war Maharathis) from starting their own stuff.

Within a few months of Sathya Sai giving up the physical body, Muddenahalli group was born, created by long-term warden Narasimhamurthy who was accepted as successor by so many alumni, and with many people of official Sai orgn. with many years proximity to physical form Bhagavan, including the most senior Sai orgn. man, Indulal Shah sir, joining Muddenahalli group!!! Later some official Sai orgn. people disassociated from Muddenahalli group. But many were associated with it in the initial three to four years after it got formed in Jul 2011.

And now in March 2018 close to seven years from Bhagavan Mahasamadhi, it is clear that there is no single figure, no single successor, no single board of Trustees etc. in Sathya Sai movement whose command will be obeyed by all the Maharathis or even by all Sai alumni or even by all Sai devotees at large!!! This is the plain truth!! We cannot escape from or ignore this truth.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: So like the USA megachurches accept that competition but stay united in having a common Bible scripture (with slightly different interpretations), and like so many major Hindu orgns accept that competition but stay united in having some level though not full level of commonality in the Hindu scriptures they accept, Sathya Sai movement should also accept that competition but stay united in having common teacings of Sathya Sai (with slightly different interpretations, at times).
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: In this context, we must also mention that Shirdi Sai movement seems to also follow that model with a main Shirdi Sai sansthan orgn. and many, many Shirdi Sai temples and orgns. separate from it, that would be competing at some level for donors and followers, but stay united in having common teachings and life stories of Shirdi Sai (perhaps with slightly different interpretations, at times).

I think that concludes my main views on this matter. So what's your concluding view on this matter bro. Himy Misra?
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Looks like you are busy Himy Misra.Thanks a ton for this very helpful exchange. Thanks for spending your valuable time on it. May I share your comments on a public post I would like to make of our exchange (on Facebook and on Blogger)? Note that this post will not have any financial profit motive whatsoever. Thanks. I need to get on to something else now and shut down my computer. Will read your response later.
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Himy Misra wrote: my apologies Ravi, i thought you had made your concluding remarks and therefore i had gone off for some work i had to do or i wouldnt get any supper this evening. just came back and saw your comments.
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Himy Misra wrote: yes you are perfectly right. we seem to be going the Shirdi way, with a main central trust and many, many Sathya Sai Centers or whatever people want to call them. Sathya Sai has a large following among Indians from all walks of life, NRIs and a few westerners. so thats how things will work out i think. of course please you dont even need to ask me to share anything you want. you have done an outstanding job so far, fighting alone and with a lot of guts, along with a similar fight from Terry and her team and of course Mr Ganti too and many others who i may not be aware of. but you have been right in the eye of the storm, in Puttaparthy, and thats an enormous amount of pressure to handle. may Baba guide us and protect us all.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Thanks Himy Misra. Will put up the post and inform you about it.
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Ravi S. Iyer wrote: Also thanks for the kind words about me, Terry and V.R. Ganti. I think we three have been the most involved at an intense level in this resistance to Muddenahalli group FALSE BELIEF, with me facing a lot of nasty looks and a little more in 2015 & 2016 in Puttaparthi due to my whistle-blowing, and Terry also facing similar stuff in Puttaparthi. Mr. Ganti operated out of Singapore or other places outside India, and so he had a degree of safety in terms of direct intimidation but he did face a lot of really nasty stuff over social media, and I guess even telephone calls.
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----------end conversation ------------------------

[I thank wikipedia and Pastor Joel Osteen and have presumed that they will not have any objections to me sharing the above extracts from their website (wikipedia) and screenshot pic (of Pastor Osteen's youtube video) on this post which is freely viewable by all, and does not have any financial profit motive whatsoever.]